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Buggin as a group

Syn
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Re: Buggin as a group

Postby Syn » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:22 am

Any way you look at it , people will be competing for resources , you can bet resources for foraging, hunting and fishing will become more elusive with more people dependant on them. I wonder if it would be worth the investment in fertilizer to create some permanent road blocks at key strategic bridges or narrow passages over the amount of other defensive measures you'd need to secure interior positions rather than strategize to move people off with a small army of bullets ?
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farmer
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Location: Interior BC

Re: Buggin as a group

Postby farmer » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:24 am

You make valid points aaron. We have friends from the lower mainland and they have plans to make it to our neck of the woods. I didn't mean to come across as hostile I was trying to say that it is something that you should take into consideration. Many of the preppers across the interior have similar worries that with a massive flood of people fleeing the Fraser Valley it will stress the infrastructure and resources to their limit. Have you been to any of the beach communities in the Interior on a long weekend? You have to remember too places like the Shuswap will see an influx from your area as well as Alberta as will parts of the Okanagan and maybe even the Kootenays. People who come prepared won't be the main concern because like you guys have pointed out you will come with some supplies and some ability to make a go of it. The real threat to us and you will be what aaron said is the second wave. They will be the majority and they will be desperate and like you said aaron many of them will be armed.

The winter in parts of the interior can be harsh so I would bet that most people will flood into areas like the Okanagan because it is more mild there. We are not on the direct line to the Okanagan or Kamloops area but we are close and there will be spill over.

Someone mentioned that there is a difference between how the folks in the Lower Mainland prep and how we in the Interior prep. It is sort of true I think most of us have a bug out location and plan but we will be fleeing the hordes of desperate people from wave 2 more than anything. You guys should take what I said about winter seriously. If there is a breakdown in the government the highways and roads out of the region could be shutdown. Been over the Coquihalla in the winter? No one keeping it clear or managing the avalanche risk and it is out of service. The other routes won't be much better the Hope-Princeton can be just as bad and the Canyon...

Anyways I was just trying to bring another train of thought into your prepping planning. We won't all be out to shoot first, I won't be here talking to you about it if I was but you will need to be prepared for the chances that you may be told to keep on trucking and if you are in that second wave, well that could be the real interesting.
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"You cannot allow any of your people to avoid the brutal facts. If they start living in a dream world, it’s going to be bad." - General James 'Maddog' Mattis USMC Ret.

modernmithrandir
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Re: Buggin as a group

Postby modernmithrandir » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:37 am

I've been reading this thread with interest and there have been some great thoughts brought forward....who to travel with, where to meet, where to leave messages, cache's for food and other supplies and possibly the setting up of networks.

One thing that hasn't been addressed, though, and I think it really ought to be, would be the matter of health and sanitation.

Stress (and if we're talking about a shtf scenario, there *will be* stress!) can bring on a host of health issues....the body can only cope with so many things at once. Depending on the time of year (winter, for instance) it could be even more of a concern. Are there medical issues that need to be considered? Does anyone in your group require specific medication (like, perhaps, insulin), can there be natural alternatives that can be stockpiled?

I also mention sanitation because that will be a challenge for even a small group in a shtf situation. And illness can spread through a group like wildfire, especially if there are children or the elderly in your group. Managing illness is something you should put into your plan. I guess I'm saying that even the best bug-out med kit can't cover everything, and these are things that I rarely see considered.

anyway, just a thought to add to the mix.
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aaronbouge
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Re: Buggin as a group

Postby aaronbouge » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:41 am

Farmer I didn't take your comment as hostile, I apologize if I came across as defensive. I believe you made a very valid point when you brought this up and it is something I have mentioned to people within my personal network and think it is something everyone on "both sides of the fence" needs to think about. I personally hope people would not shoot first as I would not be the one shooting first either. But knowing the nature of people during stressful times, and knowing my history, I know that many people will be in the shoot first mindset. Therefore me and my group plan to avoid as many of them as possible. It's a bit about the route, but more importantly it's the timing. Like you said, you DON'T want to be part of the second wave. The best thing to do is to avoid, and go straight to your location. And then right back to prepping.
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Screedcrete
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Re: Buggin as a group

Postby Screedcrete » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:43 am

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Syn
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Re: Buggin as a group

Postby Syn » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:04 pm

If there is ever a sudden emergency that dictates bugging out, would the first wave not be those tens of thousands of people who are daily in transit , suddenly impacted and displaced in the interior ? That may actually be the first 'wave' of displaced people the interior folk will have to deal with if they are along a transportation route . Those with a specific bug out agenda may or not be those arriving next .
I am sure the interior is going to be just as affected for shortages from the get go as elsewhere , I am sure they are dependant on shipments of supplies from all over like everyone else. And the point I think that Farmer made that is going ignored is that the preppers there have already given consideration to the tribe their land can support and the family and friends they will be trusting and extending their hospitality too, same as anyone else will be in the heat of the moment . And it is not so easy to just forage some more and fish some more and hunt and snare a little more to provide for an extra family no matter how good your intentions are bugging out . Gardens are seasonal and 3/4 of the year are not bearing and need to be planned for and it is not just the labour to go out and help put in and tend the garden, there are needs to be equipment to put up and preserve the food an extra family needs in winter. Additional orchards take years to establish and I doubt those bugging in are going to subsist on pine needle tea until then . I think people will be scraping just to provide for their own communities let alone an inflow of refugees. And when you see how defensive it gets in conversation on a forum of nice LIKE MINDED people, it should give you some clue that it could quickly turn violent. Say before any preppers arrive there are already lootings, and violent attacks , defensiveness is going to take on a whole new level . I think there needs to be a lot more thoughtfulness and planning and as I say investment upfront to make a successful relocation especially under the duress of a suddenly chaotic and long term emergency .

I personally will not be bugging to the interior but it does bring home a point to me , that I should be investing cooperatively in the destination , and the network to get me there now. As small an effort as this may sound today I am going to put eggs in the incubator to try to raise a few extra layers , pot up some volunteer walnuts , apples and plums and take a bunch of cuttings to start .
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aaronbouge
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Re: Buggin as a group

Postby aaronbouge » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:06 pm

I dont think farmers point is going ignored. I think it is a valid point. and most of what he, and u syn have said is very true. but, at the risk of sounding like a jerk, its almost a "not my problem" situation. well, it IS my problem,but most people wont be thinking about it. not in the short term. Look at it like this. u have 1.5 million starving, desprate unprepared people behind u. do u really care about how ur gonna be feeding yourself in two years, a year, or even a month from now? Heck no! U care about surviving today! Ask any non prepper wat they would do if SHTF I gurantee most will say "im gna hook up my 5th wheel and go camping up north." My point is this is wats gna happen, for sure.so if your living up north, u better be preparing for it.

also, back to food. we established that most preppers hav consdered this already. and have a plan to feed themselves. so y concern yourself with those bugging out? Ppl bugging out arnt refugees. refugees are the unprepared ppl seeking refuge in your land.

Also, the point farmer did make thats going ignored is winter. its harder to feed yourself(and travel, among other things). Ive been studying and ive come to learn theres food EVERYWHERE. What we consider weeds amd nuisnce plants are for the most part edible. its all around us, in the summer, not the winter. ideas?

Als many preppers i know have seed banks in their BOB. doesnt help u today, but if u cache u can survive until those seeds grow.

anyways just some thoughts. hopefully my point isnt lost and friends up north prepare for this. i also think theres lots of advantage to groups up north allying with groups down here. Theres already a skilled labor shortage up there imagine after SHTF. Or when lines of communication are down, the 1st wave comes bearing the news. things like that.
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farmer
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Re: Buggin as a group

Postby farmer » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:49 am

aaron I think most people do overlook winter no matter where they are. Winter to me is the biggest fear no matter how prepared we are winter is long, unpredictable and it doesn't take much for your stocks to be lost. Our freezer was full of moose, elk, deer, salmon and beef we went away one weekend and came home to a freezer full of garbage. Was a very costly loss for us. Luckily fall is coming and hopefully it will be filled up again. There is food in the wild even in the winter but you really need to know what you are looking for. You can't depend on having game readily available and once the streams and rivers freeze up you will need to find a good lake for fish but again not all lakes will produce for you and with extra pressure on these resources will make it harder. Remember too that most of your favorite fishing holes are stocked!

There are some plants that you can pick in the winter but again it isn't going to be easy. You guys in the Valley are lucky in that respect you don't get the snow that we do and if you can ride it out you can grow winter gardens which give you nearly a year round food supply.

Anyways no matter how we look at it if the SHTF it isn't going to be a cakewalk and if for some reason the lower mainland has to flee or the interior has too head to the ocean things are going to get really bad no matter what.
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"You cannot allow any of your people to avoid the brutal facts. If they start living in a dream world, it’s going to be bad." - General James 'Maddog' Mattis USMC Ret.

Screedcrete
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Re: Buggin as a group

Postby Screedcrete » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:11 am

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Rmdpreps
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Re: Buggin as a group

Postby Rmdpreps » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:03 pm

Syn wrote:If there is ever a sudden emergency that dictates bugging out, ... I think people will be scraping just to provide for their own communities let alone an inflow of refugees. And when you see how defensive it gets in conversation on a forum of nice LIKE MINDED people, it should give you some clue that it could quickly turn violent. Say before any preppers arrive there are already lootings, and violent attacks , defensiveness is going to take on a whole new level . I think there needs to be a lot more thoughtfulness and planning and as I say investment upfront to make a successful relocation especially under the duress of a suddenly chaotic and long term emergency .
.


Great points Syn!! Your last sentence really hit the nail, more thoughfulness and planning is required especially under duress! All of the constructive criticism within this forum are only going to open our eyes to help us makes us better.

Also your post reminds me of History Channel's show "After Armageddon" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8rYaPfFLgo - about a simple "unprepared" family having to flee a disaster.
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