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No stoves ????

villager
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Re: No stoves ????

Postby villager » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:23 am

This is surely high time to perfect various models of rocket stove designs before it becomes impossible to even homestead by reason of arbitrary sweeping laws banning wood fired heat. It's the same situation as the older gasguzzler cars' inefficiencies. Time to finesse the energy use. I'm hoping to have mine done by summer.
A group in the northwest states is actively pursuing legal acceptance by local inspectors, of their rocket stove's efficiency and safety.
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thecrownsown
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Re: No stoves ????

Postby thecrownsown » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:08 am

There is a moratorium in Montreal on wood stoves. The air quality does get poor with so many people using them.

But if your not in a densely populated area not sure if this is an issue. I doubt it would be a provincial law...but if you live in a larger community or city...its very possible. Montreal did it because after so many ice storms people got sick of being without heat. Problem is.... that much suit is brutal health wise.
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Goldie
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Re: No stoves ????

Postby Goldie » Wed Jan 28, 2015 4:50 am

Villager ,are you suggesting some sort of INDOOR rocket stove for heat ?
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villager
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Re: No stoves ????

Postby villager » Wed Jan 28, 2015 3:50 pm

Goldie wrote:Villager ,are you suggesting some sort of INDOOR rocket stove for heat ?


Yes, most are indoors because of the thermal mass built around the parts constructed in the shape of a couch (mass-ive radiator), although i've seen an example a few yrs. ago with the feed tube just outside the door to minimize the mess inside, and the potential for initial smoke blowback in the event of downdraft.
Usually , on fire-start ,a house/cabin is residually warmer inside than outside temps,especially in rocket mass heaters, and that alone creates enough draw for start-smoke to be pulled in right after ignition. I have read that some briefly (1-2minutes) preheat their exhaust pipe inside with a propane torch to create initial positive draw, but the cheapest/easiest is to just light/stick in a long sheaf of newspaper into the feedtube to prewarm.

I plan to have one in the greenhouse too, whether attached or solo.
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thecrownsown
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Re: No stoves ????

Postby thecrownsown » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:40 pm

Villager, that sounds amazing. But...what is the environmental benefit of this style vs. a conventional wood stove that would appease "the state's" concern about air pollution?

For arguments sake, if you have 10 000 people in Moncton who have wood stoves, and then a Rocket stove went on the market with a ULC rating that could be installed in a household and satisfy your insurance company...and over the next decade the same 10 000 people switched to a Rocket Stove....what has changed? I love the idea, but are you not still putting out the same pollution? Does it just come down to a matter of so many units within a certain area? Or is there a significant reduction in air pollution?

Do you have a couple links on the interior models your talking about? I am very interested in learning more about them. The concern in NB aside....very interesting topic.
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villager
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Re: No stoves ????

Postby villager » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:51 pm

thecrownsown wrote:Villager, that sounds amazing. But...what is the environmental benefit of this style vs. a conventional wood stove that would appease "the state's" concern about air pollution?

For arguments sake, if you have 10 000 people in Moncton who have wood stoves, and then a Rocket stove went on the market with a ULC rating that could be installed in a household and satisfy your insurance company...and over the next decade the same 10 000 people switched to a Rocket Stove....what has changed? I love the idea, but are you not still putting out the same pollution? Does it just come down to a matter of so many units within a certain area? Or is there a significant reduction in air pollution?

Do you have a couple links on the interior models your talking about? I am very interested in learning more about them. The concern in NB aside....very interesting topic.


Right, it is a matter of very much less particulate matter in the atmosphere for any given amount burned in conventional vs. true rocket. This is further compounded by the fact that the rocket yields more heat for the same amount of fuel because it burns virtually all the secondary gases, and retains heat in the mass, slowing down the exiting warm vapour (sometimes out a horizontal vent eliminating the implications of cutting into your roof) instead of the very high temps out a conventional chimney....and it reportedly uses much less fuel in the first place ...25% of conventional stoves...and that, mostly gathered twigs, in advance. No cutting necessary, but that can also be done with a hatchet for thicker branches when green enough, and stored till dry. (bonus feature is that the vapour barely rises visibly, so no usual telltale smoke presence).
By the way, there was a startup small co. at a previous guelph org. conference showing their basic rocket models in the basement level of vendor booths. He may well be there again this year.I had suggested that we collaborate on design, but soon got swamped with other projects. I'm going to check if he's listed , and i can post that fact if so.
There is a large slick commercial outdoor wood furnace made in manitoba or sask. which approaches that efficiency and holds 3' logs, circulating heat thru insulated piping to a house + mass, but it's close to 10k. However, i do want to use such a stove for a cluster of 2-3 cabins in future, (furnace inside a shared greenhouse.)
Meanwhile here is an orienting stove site .
http://permies.com/wood-burning-stoves.html
There's a ton of experimental dialog in other parts via the permies.com site.

I think that a few of the most advanced designers have received approval at a local inspectors level, but i haven't got the latest info. It will take a while, and for sure we want to be safer than before.
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villager
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Re: No stoves ????

Postby villager » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:59 pm

Here, a couple more sites.
I did not see the canadian manufacturer registered at the guelph conference exhibitors list.

http://www.permies.com/t/26936/rocket-s ... ter-Guelph

http://www.rocketmassheater.ca/

http://www.rocketmassheater.ca/index.php/contact-us

(i have no commercial connection with any of these)....(YET)
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NOCHEINGERMAN
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Re: No stoves ????

Postby NOCHEINGERMAN » Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:01 am

Thoughts on rocket stoves. The one I saw was in an open tent where the smoke wouldn't be felt. All the illustrations I have checked do have a venting system. I thought I had found an even better solution and built it. It's basically a smaller cylinder inside a larger one where the air is recirculated before it exits by holes at the bottom. Supposedly no smoke and used by nomads in Mongolia etc.. The truth is, it will start working when it's really hot. I had to flee the smoke long before it was getting warm enough. People wake up. Even a crumbled newspaper makes more smoke that can be tolerated in a living room. My point here is, sticks are just that, sticks. Even if they burn 4 times longer. And the nights are long in the winter time. My solution: We kicked out the fancy Heartland cook stove, bought a modern heater and built a stove pipe oven for it. One good-sized piece of hardwood for the night and the stove is ALWAYS in baking mode. Whenever there is a fire, the oven temperature is hovering around 200 degrees C. and can be controlled super-easily with the air intake. We never had it so easy in 32 years of heating/cooking/baking with wood and burn at least 1/3 less of it.
In the meantime I have built an entirely new cook stove with an oven 12 in. over the top. Total cost with the steel, two glass doors and 15 fire bricks was around $ 300.- and it beats anything on the market.
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