• Advertisement

Gratful Dead Hedge 2

User avatar
cernunnos5
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:48 pm
x 1
x 19

Gratful Dead Hedge 2

Postby cernunnos5 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:33 pm

I thought I would just restart this post from scratch to bump it up.

Here is what I wrote in the first post...
"I hate giving survival advice that I haven't proven over several years...but once again, I am problem solving. Permaculture means feeding the soil instead of just taking from it. Thus, animals and their management. Food comes out. Poop has to go back in. Animal management means keeping them where they can do the most good and keeping them out of your hard work that they will trash. Unless you are willing to be a 24\7 hearder...that means fencing...and expensive fencing material isn't going to be around forever. It may be around but lest say you cant afford it. So, what to do? Fencing has become ....top level survival information that we need to figure out.

A few of my friends, independently, started doing traditional woven fences a couple years ago, myself included. I knew the materials wouldn't last that long in our climate...but you gotta work with what you got. I have a new section I want to fence so I can put the pigs into to till and fertilize (and keep the chickens...and dear out of) so what to do. I spent the day searching for long, straight, material today, to do another woven fence. Not enough for the job. Maybe if I copis the crap out of a lot of scrub trees and wait five years for it to grow back tall and straight...but I have to solve this problem now. So what do we have in abundance. Left over scrub wood. We have a rather large food forest. I can gather several tons of food from it...but no one tells you, you have to manage it or faster growing trees will choke out, kill and feed apon the trees you want to keep. That means a lot of scraggly waist product. Same if you cut your own firewood. All the extra stuff.

This is where The Dead Hedge comes in. Using that stuff. I will give you folks photo documentation as I build one and report on my experience as the years pass."

I'll Continue from there...
Speaking of the Apocalypse..... Spring seems to have come a couple of months early, sooooo, I have been a bit busy. I only wanted to do a small fence around the solar panels. It has morphed into the great wall of china...but with twigs. Because the ground was frozen and I wanted to get a feel for the amount of effort it would take, I thought I would start with one section of the overgrown orchard, using the brush that was there so it would continue to grow becoming a live fence over time. I would put in real posts where needed later, to fill in gaps. First, I toped the trees and cut a channel, then started cutting back all the competing trees that were choking out the apple trees...then I just got alittle bit carried away....and decided to do the entire orchard with the hopes of using the pigs to completely re sculpt the landscape. It was still too miserable to do anything else and I was pent up from the winter anyhooo. Go, Go, El Nino.

Here is some before and after shots
Attachments
DH Before 1.JPG
DH Before 1.JPG (45.1 KiB) Viewed 613 times
DH Before 2.JPG
DH Before 2.JPG (49.21 KiB) Viewed 613 times
DH It begins 3.JPG
DH It begins 3.JPG (49.08 KiB) Viewed 613 times
0 x
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.

User avatar
cernunnos5
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:48 pm
x 1
x 19

Re: Gratful Dead Hedge 2

Postby cernunnos5 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:42 pm

Now that I was getting a feel for it...and seeing that this would make a fine, improvised Zombie Defence wall, lol, I started figuring the new meandering path the fence would take, using the best trees and the least posts. This mainly started because one of my jobs for the year was to find a bunch of the Service Berry trees (totally unusable for feeding anyone but the birds) and cut them down so the would coppice back into a more human pickable size. So I sort of started building the fence Bass Akwards. I started putting the extra material along where The fence would be with the intension of putting posts in afterwards once the ground was soft enough....and then I just kept cutting...and cutting...
Attachments
DH Bass Akward 4.JPG
DH Bass Akward 4.JPG (31.03 KiB) Viewed 611 times
DH Bass Akward 6.JPG
DH Bass Akward 6.JPG (49.88 KiB) Viewed 611 times
0 x
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.

User avatar
cernunnos5
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:48 pm
x 1
x 19

Re: Gratful Dead Hedge 2

Postby cernunnos5 » Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:50 pm

At this point, I am starting to do it the correct way buy putting in posts in the open areas. I tried just ponding some into the wet ground between freeze, thaw cycles but it just wasn't working because I was putting the fatter ends onto the ground. I now use the post hole digger. It is my hope that a few of these posts will continue to grow, sending out roots and shoots, so they become live fence posts. Only time will tell. This is how many of the great hedges in Europe started. Many of them started as defensive walls put in by the romans, (Hawthorn) and they just kept growing. Im using my hawthorn sparingly to fill in light areas, on top to make it hard to climb over, and eventually sticking cuttings into the ground with the hopes that a few will take. Maybe some black berry as well. I put the post in during the hibernating phase so hopefully they will draw moisture up as soon as the wet warmth arrives.

More pictures to come. I hope to give it the pig test within the month.
Attachments
DH Bass Akwards 5.JPG
DH Bass Akwards 5.JPG (39.18 KiB) Viewed 607 times
DH Doing it right 7.JPG
DH Doing it right 7.JPG (49.11 KiB) Viewed 607 times
DH doing it right 8.JPG
DH doing it right 8.JPG (56.1 KiB) Viewed 607 times
0 x
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.

User avatar
cernunnos5
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:48 pm
x 1
x 19

Re: Gratful Dead Hedge 2

Postby cernunnos5 » Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:34 pm

I think My decision to get serious about this fencing came from watching Tudor Farm. Watling from coppice starts at about the 9 minute mark. Dead hedge at the 13 minute mark.(I want a much thicker and higher one. At least 3 ft wide) . I'll also do some major hacking of one area this year for future coppice material. I already did a bit for the posts. It didn't take long for the cut scrub to make it hard to move and work in. I'll drag that scrub out and toss it on the dead hedge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ERDYjsHBg

Most of my gardening this year will be done with a chainsaw.lol
0 x
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.

User avatar
farmgal
Moderator
Posts: 2382
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:25 am
Location: Ontario
x 89
x 56
Contact:
Canada

Re: Gratful Dead Hedge 2

Postby farmgal » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:00 pm

I see why you said sore and needed stretching, great photos and overview! I will watch for further photos as it processes.. nice job!
0 x
http://livingmydreamlifeonthefarm.wordpress.com/

User avatar
cernunnos5
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:48 pm
x 1
x 19

Re: Gratful Dead Hedge 2

Postby cernunnos5 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:22 am

The conversation on this is alittle more lively over at Permies but I thought I should cut an paste one persons thoughts on it that some here may find useful. Pay attention to the last paragraph

"DB wrote
Your "dead hedge" concept, though, I can work with. I already have brush piles! Seems to me you're just talking about arranging them strategically. ;)


Ross Raven wrote: I see that you have caught my fever. You may be cursing my name later. Its quite labour intensive. It will break down and need to be added to every few years as far as I can tell.

DB wrote
Yeah. I've done enough brush cutting that I have a notion. (I say this while nursing a right hand full of thorn holes, from spending two hours today cutting a whole thicket of Osage Orange saplings away from around a newly-discovered feral fruit tree that I discovered when it bloomed this week.)

I think if I do do this thing, I'm going to back it up by planting a living hedge in and adjacent to it. We've got a bunch of thorny stuff that wants to grow here; the only reason I haven't done living hedges 'ere now is the long lead time before they are functional. But planting osage orange and honey locust and willow and mulberry and hackberry along a dead hedge seems like a reasonable way to get to a permanent living and fodder-producing fence, especially if some of the trees supporting the dead hedge continue to grow and produce coppice (well, more like pollard actually) material for refreshing it. Adding to the dead hedge doesn't seem like much of a burden when I am actively growing and clearing and maintaining the land in its vicinity; there will always be brush that needs to go somewhere. But I like the idea that by the time I get to that certain age when I'm not going to be cutting brush, I might have a living hedgerow that won't need as much attention.




Ross Raven wrote:But you see that there is a dual\cooperative thing taking place here. By not having enough coppice material, you build a dead hedge...which creates new areas that will produce coppice.


DB wrote
All my Googling today has reinforced the notion that dead hedges weren't so widely used historically because they were regarded as ruinously expensive, especially in labor. The best modern examples I can find on the web all seem to have been created by non-profits using lots of volunteers. So I don't see them as a permanent solution to anything. But as a pioneer fence during our initial attempts to reclaim land that's been let grow wild, it seems to have a lot to offer. Much of the labor "cost" is labor that would happen during land-clearing anyway, and the resulting fence can be used to establish animal systems long before they could be financed in any conventional way. Plus, the cold truth is that I need the exercise; I'm coming to this whole "growing stuff" enterprise deep into middle age after a ludicrously sedentary life to date"


The real important part for preppers were these words " used to establish animal systems long before they could be financed in any conventional way"
0 x
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.

User avatar
Novaprepper
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Gratful Dead Hedge 2

Postby Novaprepper » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:34 pm

A live fence would work better.
0 x
Education is an inoculation against fear.

User avatar
cernunnos5
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:48 pm
x 1
x 19

Re: Gratful Dead Hedge 2

Postby cernunnos5 » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:53 am

Novaprepper wrote:A live fence would work better.

Nice to see you back NP.

Perhaps I am not communicating it right. There is a symbiotic relationship going on here. In the same way that not having enough coppice leads to making a dead hedge that helps to produce more coppice.....Sure, a live fence is the way to go but a live fence takes several years to be animal proof. If you build a proper dead hedge it keeps the animals in while providing for and supporting a living fence. The live fence should be taking hold as the dead hedge breaks down
0 x
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.

User avatar
cernunnos5
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:48 pm
x 1
x 19

Re: Gratful Dead Hedge 2

Postby cernunnos5 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:11 am

Just approaching 2000 view over here and great responses
http://www.permies.com/t/53469/Fencing/ ... Dead-Hedge
0 x
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.

User avatar
peppercorn
Posts: 964
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:06 am
Location: Alberta
x 7
x 39
Contact:

Re: Gratful Dead Hedge 2

Postby peppercorn » Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:35 am

I don't know what to say c5, since I lack subtlety I will just say the following straight out, and know I am on beta blockers so this isn't a adrenaline driven response I am so calm I don't even swear and give the finger in traffic anymore so with that said........I wont take the bait and click the link to give that prancing pretender a page view to help sell to his advertisers his site.
He is a well know quantity....I have boxed with that pretender on many sites where he does a drive by now and again to drop links to the endless vids he sells. He usually(or his sock puppets) craters the threads and gets them taken down when they don't go his way.

Now he writes code you understand...its his site!.........Now I am sure he is much more skillful and practiced at his craft than he was 5-6 or so years ago when I last visited. at that time the site was crude enough that the manipulations were clear to spot, he used to refresh his membership base to show that most everyone checked in, this would show that all 5000 or so members were on line or some such thing, I suspect to appeal to advertisers . Any questioning, or asking for real data on a subject would get a member banned, and at that time it was well known in internet land that most his claimed members were long since banned. It was pretty much a joke web site, I don't believe for a moment it has changed, other than his better ability to manipulate its appearance.
The only time that guy has gotten dirt under his finger nails is if he tripped and fell down, the only thing he uses a shovel for, is to pose when a camera is around, and if he has calasis's on his hands its NOT from work and likely they would only be on his right hand.
So I will pass on links to that site.....my time is better spent doing anything else, Nose picking comes to mind.2000 views can be him hitting the refresh key or his bobble heads ( and he does have some loyal servants) doing the same. again I am sure he has become much more sophisticated now than he was then, so I fully understand why you or others may not see what I believe is clear. I want to call it a zekered site,....... a guy endlessly introduceing new topics (thus Zekering) but he is much more, it is a zekered site but also a pauled site (I am just making these terms up as I go along) , and that means he answeres himself back.

Ofcource c5, As I always say.....if I am wrong, I will apoligise profusely, you just come back and say no he doesn't endlessly self promote, he isn't selling vids and or e books, doesnt try to get youtube views (that was his favorite), he doesn't drop links on his site or others to you tube vids to generate add revenue, doesn't spend his time encouraging others to drop links on his behalf, Tell me you have confidence his membership numbers are true,valid and active!, though do be aware I just may be able to prove the opposite (of his membership claims)
The internet...so much BS , so little time to shoot it down. He is a marketer, a image salesman, you can do that on the internet and make a living if your good....content doesn't matter you just pump up the volume enough to get attention. He might not be so youtube focused these days as I have been told they don't pay as well as they used to. The only thing that guy does is sit on his ass day after day in front of his computer repackaging any content he thinks he can flog to generate a revenue stream.

As for the hedge, it looks great, too labour intensive for me, way to labour intensive....I would start looking at eating the animals that I needed the fence for, but if you have nothing, that will build a fence. You must have a lot of energy....
0 x
a puppet is free, so long as it likes its strings.


Return to “Nova Scotia”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests