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an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

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prom
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby prom » Thu May 08, 2014 6:44 am

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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Thu May 08, 2014 2:46 pm

With a history like that, no wonder Putin's speech was so focused on trying to convince the Ukrainian people those days will not return. It seems that the Ukrainian people now have to choose the lesser of the evils just to exist day to day. Russia has a violent past record that would be hard to ignore and yet NATO has a violent present day record that is evident even for the younger generation to see! It is hard not to sympathize with their present dilemma. If they go with the EU, military forces will be set up throughout the Ukraine and their own internal conflicts will be a constant reminder that they likely chose wrong! They have to likely go with Russia just on the point that the Ukraine will break apart otherwise.

The EU would have stood a far better chance of winning the people over had they not been caught manipulating so many of the current events. They were bold strategies and might have worked better if they weren't in such a rush to conquer. The US's financial crisis is the logical reason for the rush and Putin seems a patient man who knows he has won without even throwing a punch. World opinion is at an all time low for NATO and the EU due to this poor planning. Many in Europe know too the hardships that would follow for them if the US gets their way. If the EU doesn't commit to a full out frontal attack soon, they will have to fold their hand as too many holes in the media are leaking the real events which are occurring daily.
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prom
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby prom » Tue May 13, 2014 5:26 pm

Knuckle wrote: no wonder Putin's speech was so focused on trying to convince the Ukrainian people those days will not return.


Putin speech was focused on that, while his hands were grabbing Crimea. I don't think he convinced anyone.

Knuckle wrote: It seems that the Ukrainian people now have to choose the lesser of the evils just to exist day to day.


You might say that, life in general about is very rarely black and white, but in this case the lesser evil is much less of an evil than the bigger one. That's one of my biggest points in this discussion. The choice is between a union of democratic countries and a federation led by an autocratic leader supported by a deeply corrupt, institutionalized mafia style government with no respect for individual rights, freedom of speech and all the other treats that you and all the western people enjoyed here while under US imperialism.

Knuckle wrote: and yet NATO has a violent present day record that is evident even for the younger generation to see!


Please educate me on that. I suppose you're talking about former Yugoslavia but I'm not sure as I don't recall any NATO supported violence there.

Here is an analysis of the Ukraine situation done by aljazeera:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 49486.html

They should be pretty objective and can't be accused of being on the US side. This is what they say:

Being intimately linked to Russia at many different levels, a successful, democratic and tolerant Ukraine threatens the existence of the mafia state and that's what is at stake for the Kremlin rulers.
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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Tue May 13, 2014 8:09 pm

Both sides are evil....it just seems we are a part of the more evil side these days! If you swallow the line that we do this in the name of democracy, and spread such propaganda to influence others, you are fanning the flames of a fire we lit. There is so much "real evidence" one can see with just watching You Tube! It shows large crowds of Ukrainian people everywhere as a whole, constantly trying to stop the EU controlled Ukrainian Army from gaining control over strategic locations. It shows only the young who are violent and amidst that violence are shouting "Seig Heil", painting swastikas using the Nazi salute. You see no older people partaking in any video likely because can remember too well what history records! They It shows US representatives shaking hands with these Nazi extremists and the US influence behind many of the violent actions occurring. If you can't find these links, just follow this thread backwards.

Russia never invaded Cremea! They are long times Russians! They invited Russian intervention when a government coup was occurring which was obviously backed by the EU. Is it just coincidence that the only people dying in this conflict are pro-Russian? Many pro-Russians are holding cities and awaiting Russian intervention that does not come! Why? Because if they did, the EU would blame Russia further! But by not interfering, the EU is getting a blacker eye each day and Russia is looking more just. The EU's actions have united Ukraine as a country like never before, just not on our side! The Ukrainian people don't want their country divided and don't want it devastated by war. They have set a new and great example for other countries to no longer be manipulated by the super powers struggle for dominance.

I now await what is the next play as I do not think the EU will accept things as they are playing out. Imposed sanctions on Russia will create imposed sanctions on Europe. Fuel prices will likely skyrocket and only the rich will have won, no matter the final outcome! But go ahead, argue that Russia is the cause of all if it makes you feel better, for they too are corrupt...but their hands are clean of this present issue and we all know it!
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Goldie
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Goldie » Tue May 13, 2014 9:21 pm

Just because russians have been occupying crimea, does not give russians the right to take it for their own, or
even vote to take it away from Ukraine. Any such event is null and void.

Crimea belonging to Ukraine was decided upon awhile back and an agreement was signed, including where
Russia signed it too, Ukraine became sovereign , got rid of their nuclear weapons, with gaurantees
against countries making attempts against them.

It is does not matter if crimea should have OR should not have been made part of ukraine years ago.
That is "what" they decided, agreed upon and signed.

Attempts by Putin to take Crimea , is an act of war against Ukraine.

It seems I may not be popular for stating this.
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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Tue May 13, 2014 11:30 pm

Goldie wrote:Just because russians have been occupying crimea, does not give russians the right to take it for their own, or
even vote to take it away from Ukraine. Any such event is null and void.

Crimea belonging to Ukraine was decided upon awhile back and an agreement was signed, including where
Russia signed it too, Ukraine became sovereign , got rid of their nuclear weapons, with gaurantees
against countries making attempts against them.

It is does not matter if crimea should have OR should not have been made part of ukraine years ago.
That is "what" they decided, agreed upon and signed.

Attempts by Putin to take Crimea , is an act of war against Ukraine.

It seems I may not be popular for stating this.


Why do folks not see that Russia isn't doing this! It's the Ukraine that is voting to go with Russia. It's the pro EU that is the cause of all the violence. It is only the pro EU that have killed....only the pro Russians that have died! 54 + 20 = 74 deaths...all pro Russian...Why? Because they are non-violent so far and that makes them easy targets...I know our media says different. I have tried to show all that what they say doesn't mean they are telling the truth. How come even the kidnapped Vice reporter still says the large majority of the people are pro Russian? He showed that they don't trust the American media and even after being kidnapped, still says the same!.....here is another link that you can't ignore from May 12 elections.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrtBCDDOUSE

No violence at the pro Russian side, thousands voting....no Putin.....just Ukrainians! Please note that I only see older people on the pro Russian side. The young seem to be lured by the aspect of violence while the pro Russian side shows peaceful protest against Ukrainian military action...shall I get the Nazi extremist footage to show who we are in bed with? Take some time and cruise You Tube with Ukraine as a search parameter. I watch the ones in Russian and Ukrainian folks uploading too but figure no one here would watch them if I posted them. It bothers me too that Canada is involved in such as this and Libya too.
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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Wed May 14, 2014 5:06 am

I was just sent this link that shows a conspiracy for the preparation of Odessa Massacre. This is where the 54 deaths had occurred earlier. Ukrainian witnesses put together various videos showing the EU police releasing the so called instigator and pro Russian persons that they had arrested after a shooting. The shooting was staged to insight the crowd. Judge for yourself if this was staged. The fire truck was even withheld by the EU and you can watch it all play out for yourself. So how would the pro Russians get these folks to stage all this? It is obvious that the EU were the instigator again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4dJRnI-X8Q
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Antsy
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Antsy » Wed May 14, 2014 5:22 am

Knuckle wrote:Why do folks not see that Russia isn't doing this! It's the Ukraine that is voting to go with Russia. It's the pro EU that is the cause of all the violence. It is only the pro EU that have killed....only the pro Russians that have died! 54 + 20 = 74 deaths...all pro Russian...Why? Because they are non-violent so far and that makes them easy targets...I know our media says different. I have tried to show all that what they say doesn't mean they are telling the truth. How come even the kidnapped Vice reporter still says the large majority of the people are pro Russian? He showed that they don't trust the American media and even after being kidnapped, still says the same!.....here is another link that you can't ignore from May 12 elections.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrtBCDDOUSE

No violence at the pro Russian side, thousands voting....no Putin.....just Ukrainians! Please note that I only see older people on the pro Russian side. The young seem to be lured by the aspect of violence while the pro Russian side shows peaceful protest against Ukrainian military action...shall I get the Nazi extremist footage to show who we are in bed with? Take some time and cruise You Tube with Ukraine as a search parameter. I watch the ones in Russian and Ukrainian folks uploading too but figure no one here would watch them if I posted them. It bothers me too that Canada is involved in such as this and Libya too.


I got as far as the rap music in the video you posted and had to turn it off. For the sake of disclosure I will say that I have no stake in the conflict one way or another and believe that all outcomes will end poorly for the average Ukrainian. The conflict, as I see it, is being done for the benefit of two or more groups of privileged Ukrainian to determine which will enjoy power for the next five to ten years.

Having grown up in Canada during the Cold War, I have an ingrained distrust for the Russians. It's irrational and I recognize it. That does not mean that the Russians aren't stirring the pot in the hopes that the group they support are successful. It looks like the super power manoeuvering from the 60s through 90s and one would be naive to think that either power was not up to their elbows in it. I also believe that there has been violence perpetrated by both the pro-Russian and traditional Ukrainian camps. Do the Ukrainian's have a higher body count? I don't know and honestly don't really care. The Russians will recognize the votes for independence from Ukraine (or for dependence on Russia as the case may be) and will decry any federal vote in Kiev that does not go their way. The Ukrainian lobby both inside the country and in the West will do the exact opposite. Knuckle apparently has a stake in the conflict and is passionately arguing for "his team"; others have an interest in "their team". Let's just not pretend that we don't see the marionette strings directing BOTH sides of this little drama, shall we? Just as we should acknowledge the 70 plus year old strings tugging at Canada and encouraging our paltry contribution. As a tax payer and a citizen, that is where I start to care. Like Knuckle, I'm not overly pleased with our involvement in this and other conflicts. I suspect my reasons are different though. I'd sooner see us declare war on countries fishing illegally in our waters. (frickin' Spanish,Russians, Americans, Japanese, etc, etc, etc)
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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Wed May 14, 2014 4:15 pm

I can't imagine how I could have a stake in the events which occur in Ukraine unless it is that Canada is participating in global profiteering. I can't imagine why we are there other than we fear our American neighbour so much that we follow like a puppy lest we have to face their rath! Back in the 70's when I was in the military, we considered ourselves a neutral country and did not interfere with others conflicts. Yet we were trained to distrust all that was Russian and all we knew of Russia is what was drilled into us from youth. The blatant lies that were spread during the events before and after 9/11 caused the awakening of distrust in our government for myself and others. The realization of seeing occupation of other countries that had pathetic armies to combat their invaders and seeing the devastation left behind....we are not just in our actions, no matter how the media paints it!

Many who come to this forum do so because they no longer put trust in their own government. Yet it seems that some still hoot and cheer when they see the aggressive and manipulative tactics taken by their government against any who get in their way. I myself joined this forum because I haven't quite given up on man yet, as opposed to trusting wholly in God's intervention(as my wife does). I assume that time has taught many other ex-military persons here to distrust the actions taken by their government in many of the same ways as myself. I have fought enough and caused enough trouble in my lifetime to finally realize that I fight much better when I know I'm in the right. Nothing I see today makes me feel we are in the right!

I have noted that when I watch boxing and kick boxing on TV these days, that my approach is rarely the same as others around me. I devoted almost 20 years to full contact training(note I did not say sports), not for the usual reasons but for the need to release built up aggression. When watching these sports, I imagine I'm the losing opponent and try to decipher his/my opponents weaknesses and how he could still be beaten. I even consider his/my reduced strength with each landed blow received because I've been there. (If you have participated in full contact sports or even been in a fight or two, you know what I mean). I don't know if I can blame the military for my aggressive nature or if I was always this way...I do know that I no longer get in as many fights likely because I no longer look to fight! I even trained with my wife daily for 6 months or so until she defended herself against another biker chick and kicked her butt. She refused to train further as she did not like how easily reflex action kicked in ...it was many years later before I could even relate to her thinking on that one! (and the nickname Knuckle was one I got from riding a 1947 Knucklehead Harley for 21 years, not for fighting)

I prep somewhat these days because I feel I have to. And I started coming to this forum because I think I have to try to dissuade those who consider "Lock & Load" against their fellow Canadians the only option in bad times. I do not wish to lose all faith in man but seeing current events unfold today and noting how many do not see past the misinformation being spread dampens my belief in man. With over 1,700 US architectural engineers calling BS on the Twin Towers and Building 7 collapse, I would think more folks would look for further deception before taking sides on another country takeover. I wonder too if many just find it is easier to accept their stories knowing that external conflict would be better than the internal conflict which may otherwise occur sooner if the US does not create a war soon.

- Could you imagine us using those same tactics that the Ukrainian people are using and getting our soldiers not to fight? It does seem unlikely doesn't it?

- Now can you see why it is the young who seem bent on wanting chaos in the Ukraine and the older who don't! The old have seen violence in their lifetime already and don't wish more...the young are just naive!
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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Thu May 22, 2014 5:02 am

Since I'm trying to keep the Ukrainian updates thread as unbiased as I can(for being me), I thought that I should place this You Tube link here instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NeosP8D5Ho

It is an American ranting against Obama, but he does come the same conclusion that I do. Some event will occur in the future to make the US look as if they have to fight... What can I say, watch it so I can maybe say "I told you so" later and you will know what I mean :lol: 8-)
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