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an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Discussions regarding wars around the globe
Goldie
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Goldie » Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:53 am

prom wrote:
Seems to me like this crisis has deeper implications than any other crisis that happened in the recent history.


Agreed
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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:40 am

Logic dictates that nuclear war is bad for both sides! To start down this path is likely signing the death warrants for both sides as neither has the ability to truly predict such an outcome. American news seems to pull alot of things out of the hat these days with little proof. I cannot find a direct threat so far other than suggestion. I can see that both sides are using the media to sway listeners to their side.

My point is that we, the viewers have to try to wade thru it all and get to the real truth thru weighing of "real evidence" and tossing out the "hearsay" as we would do in a court of law. A proper news presentation of the facts would show real evidence from both sides. Since no news agency does that properly anymore, you have to look elsewhere for those who are still trying to inform the public by presenting compelling proof to backup their claims.

Here's something I just found that shows both sides of this issue

It may not sway you either way, but it was presently as unbiased and informative as anything I've seen on this subject to date! Much of the daily crap has been removed, while sticking to the evidence. He then presents logical reasons for given events, and from both sides. When I watch what was presented(most of which I found thru other searches). I at least felt I was better informed about the reasoning behind each sides actions.

The most obvious truth in this whole affair is that the Ukrainian people don't want to fight their own kind and that is why they haven't started shooting each other yet! The part where CNN is explaining the map showing % who speak Russian explains alot yet doesn't fully explain why so many are protesting in Kiev....obviously they are not happy there with the EU as we were led to believe! But other You Tube videos better explained this as the earlier ones I listed showed.

What this all reminds me of is sorta like a fight you may have seen at school in your youth. Two kids were coerced into fighting over some petty difference...you could tell neither really wanted to fight but the crowd is pushing them on...name calling and other tactics are used to provoke them into an action for benefit of the audience, not because the two opponents wished to fight. While neither wishes to lose face, it is their own faces which show confusion instead of the anger required to move against their opponent. They are now aware they were played and yet continue down this path only because their pride refuses them the right to admit they were gullible enough to be played! Does this sound familiar but just on a much grander scale?...They don't want to fight and are just now maybe realizing that they are being played...they are becoming aware that they are too interlinked with Russia to divide after all but have opened the field to battle before total realization set in.....and we are the audience calling them on....let there be no doubt! The audience paid for their front row seats and their options are to fight or refund their money(which they no longer have). But where is this freedom they were promised? It is just a word, for they are as enslaved as the rest of us are to the profiteers of today.
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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Tue Apr 29, 2014 6:25 pm

I am considering that some of you may not understand what is meant when I say that "they are on their doorstep". I consider than when you are in your home country, that you are at home. Therefore any country touching your country is kinda like your front or back yard and your country therefore is theirs in turn. The Ukrainian people can know see that if war does break out, that their country is to become the battleground for it. They don't want that! Yet if Russia backed down and withdrew as the US demands (1) that opens the premise that they are weak and encourages it's enemies to push more and(2) it obviously moves the potential battleground inside the borders of Russia instead. So in all reality, the EU already has Russia's back against a wall....there is no more retreating, the only option they have left now is to stand their ground and fight!

Reverse the rolls so that we are facing their predicament...how would you feel having the enemy so close and pushing you into your own home to hide? Also, if war does break out, what is the chance that a world power such as Russia would not retaliate by trying to bring the war the North America too? It would mean that the US would now have to divide their military strength to defend it's borders. This tactic is a common one used throughout man's history. It doesn't require a massive army to accomplish this...just hit and runs with sabotage tactics. Since the US defends it's own soil fervently, a border battle is the next best option. That makes it Canada or Mexico. Canada has the weaker borders and is closer...thus we would become the doorstep for this battle with coastal regions the most likely targets. And let us not forget that China is waiting in the shadows too.....

Just a thought........

And here is another video by Vice news that show us what is truly going on and how the Ukrainian people view this by going amongst them as news reporters used to do.



and here is one from the Ukrainians who support the EU showing that Vice News does a good job of presently both sides



so how effective are these EU Ukrainian forces in the Ukraine? Seems the locals are turning on them anywhere they travel including Kiev!

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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Thu May 01, 2014 12:33 am

It seems that our reporter from Vice news is now hostage with one side or the other(as neither claims to have him). The US demands his release, yet Vice News seemed well liked by the Pro Russians too and he was the main one getting the Russian perspective out to the peoples of America. To get another perspective still, I found this video from Euro News dated 29 April.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQmCZNnbP1s

Note that the people are many and you have to admit they seem to represent the local mindset as they are cheering and in good spirits, not a violent mob. They are wanting the election date sooner and chose May 11 instead of late May. Those wanting to go with the EU seem to be the minority and they do not accept EU's banker as their elected representative.
Why? Because they never voted for him.....

I'm not a big Putin fan but I can see that this premiss for occupation was staged by the EU and we've already lost this hand! Continuing down this road only marks us as the invader, not the protector....
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prom
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby prom » Sun May 04, 2014 6:56 am

You're wrong. EU and US are not the bad guys here. Before looking at the news read some history and maybe you'll understand why non Russians and even some Russian people would choose western and US imperialism over Russian imperialism. Try to get an idea of what 45 years of communism brought by Russian tanks meant for eastern Europe and other neighbouring countries. I said try, because, unless you lived there you'll never really understand.
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Goldie
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Goldie » Sun May 04, 2014 11:57 am

I agree the Russians and Pro-Russians have been starting this. I also think that if the pro-russians
like russia better and don't like Ukraine , then go back to russia. LEAVE ukraine or be peaceful if you intend to stay.

From Ukraine friends, they say
" thousands of men arriving from russia to ukraine daily to make all this mess happen , and they
have not closed the borders and the russians keep coming in "
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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Sun May 04, 2014 2:53 pm

My point is that the Ukraine and Russia are too interlinked for us to divide them enough to win them over. This is why all the internal conflict. It was likely a 50:50 ratio earlier but when the chips are down, many are now siding with the Russians. Russia still isn't stepping in any further even though the majority is publicly inviting them to. They know they will win at the polls. Meanwhile Russia is sitting back watching the EU lose adhesion with the US due to many of them will face difficulties from imposed sanctions. Were getting a black eye with world public opinion because we claim to promote peace while waving a sword! And the most amazing thing is that much of this is fulfilling prophecy. As earlier stated, I'm not a bible thumper, but have to admit that were following Revelations enough to make me ponder! The election have been moved up to 11 May. Let them vote and this time, we should send delegates from both Canada and the US to witness that they are fair elections. (And lets leave the electronic voting machines out of the picture....)

It was pretty hard not to miss that Putin's hour long boring speech to those in Cremea was him trying to convince Ukranian's the the KGB reign will not return. His speech was not welled prepared (IMO), but the cameras showed the people backed him fully. Logically those areas closet to Russia would be more pro Russian and those closer to the EU are more pro EU. (It is also logical that those with closer ties to Europe are more likely to be related to those of us who live in America.) This is why Kiev was the focal point at the start of this conflict. It held the greatest % of EU backing. Yet seeing the possible outcome and division of Ukraine seems to have swayed the people of Kiev to reconsider as events escalated. Seems all our presence has done is unite the majority of the Ukrainian people to side with Russia.

Further pursuit in this matter just paints us as the bad guy to countries not yet involved such as China and India...folks we don't need as enemies!
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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Sun May 04, 2014 3:49 pm

They have now released the Vice reporter and here is his interview. It is very interesting as he remains quite neutral throughout this interview. I have an even greater respect for his character and will follow his exploits as he portrays the most just news I can find so far. He is definitely not siding Russia but remains objective enough to give us a better idea as to where things are going. I have to laugh as he bumps into Canadian reporters first upon his release. Please note that hey considered these were Ukrainians who took him, not Russians.

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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Sun May 04, 2014 7:51 pm

You have to admire the Ukranian people in their tactics to prevent escalation of violence. They found a method to disarm soldiers I have never seen used before in any conflict. Passing civilians seem to converge on military vehicles and demand them to disarm like they were talking to their own child. This instant banding together that the citizens achieve while showing little fear of the possible retaliation is just amazing to me. They deflate the soldiers resolve and turn them into scorned children before our eyes!

Can you imagine that maybe we might do the same someday in our near future? Have our soldiers been taught so well that this tactic would fail if used on them? I hope not!

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Knuckle
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Re: an angry Russia put 150,000 troops on high alert

Postby Knuckle » Thu May 08, 2014 3:43 am

So here is a post from American news. It states that there is only one kind of news coming out of Ukraine now and that is the voice of Russia. They state that the people of Ukraine cannot be heard yet it can be heard everywhere on YouTube. They show thousands of Ukrainian's are now ousting EU from each city without any Russian support. The people have chosen and it isn't EU. Obama seems to seek reason to go in before the May 11 elections. I betting something will happen soon.... Anyways, here is the link

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