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Ukraine: Daily Update

Discussions regarding wars around the globe
Knuckle
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Re: Ukraine: Daily Update

Postby Knuckle » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:40 pm

prom wrote:So you don't believe US government propaganda but you believe Libyan government propaganda just because they oppose US. That doesn't make much sense to me. Unfortunately I have to say that you keep on disappointing me.

I tend to believe that which I know to real evidence over that which is circumstantial or hearsay evidence. One piece of Video footage ( which isn't suspect of tampering) therefore would hold more potential of reality than multiple circumstantial evidence as it would too in a decent court of law. Now evidence to better explain the events on said video can definitely alter one's perspective and sway my opinion as much of it is established by this type of evidence.

If you haven't noticed, I mention as I often hear it repeated in our news daily, that our side claims Russia has made further threats... yet we never state what these threats were. Our media doesn't define and analyze them to better convince us that we are justified in our actions, they just state " Russia has made further threats", which therefore should leave you asking what they might be. It seems they leave this instead up to our imaginations, so we might conclude something far worse than they could report. Non-the-less, I put this down to being only "hearsay evidence" due to it's total lack of proof.

I'm sorry if you don't follow my line of thought as I have tried to explain it continually and hopes of give you better understanding. I learned this thought process from being a police officer and having to collect and present evidence in a courtroom. One had to continually improve these skills to present evidence properly or be discredited by a good defense lawyer otherwise. It has been many years since I have had to think of how to present this train of thought to others and I hope that readers can still learn some procedure from my often scattered thoughts.

Your argument of Wikipedia's interpretation of history would be considered real evidence due to your presentation and a judge would then merit it's final value pertaining(therefore a good argument). Many other points you present hold less validity and therefore I often tend to ignore them as for us to debate them would likely cause others to ignore this thread.

If I present news that doesn't meet the basic criteria I (yes, you had no say on this...) set as parameters earlier, I then sometimes state why. I try to show both sides of the news so the reader can learn what is truly occurring in the Ukraine. I try to show as much real evidence as possible and show which news agency is hosting it so the readers can discern who is the most honest at a glance. Since most folks tend to want the news short and fast, I include a quick summary with even time frames to specifics so they might stay focused long enough to get to the meat of the video. Since we are bombarded daily with our countries perspective, I often try to show more of the opposition's perspective to somewhat counter the effects our society imposes on us. If we are to go into battle someday, let it be for truth and not a bunch of lies covered in a sugar coating!
Last edited by Knuckle on Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Knuckle
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Re: Ukraine: Daily Update

Postby Knuckle » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:43 am

06 Jun Evening

- seems eastern Ukraine border crossing is abandoned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNKlf0p7eZY

- thousands of Ukrainians flee to Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxoKztJEnfk

- Putin saying he likes Poroshenkos ideas if he can make them work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tbqnX1Rr18

- Putin demands immediate ceasefire in Eastern Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9th1H763_o

- Swiss TV: a good discussion on stability in Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAhkYn7kmI4
at time 7:00 they list Russia's concerns to piece including no missile bases against Russia(understandable)
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Knuckle
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Re: Ukraine: Daily Update

Postby Knuckle » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:57 pm

07 Jun Morning

- Russian reporters detained by Ukraine forces https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djti3QXs6Fo

- VOA News: should Ukraine Jews worry about Nazi affiliation? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO2kUkdu3ZI

- Poroshenko sworn in while claiming Crimea is still part of Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNPwjmMmBu8
I don't think that was what he shared with Putin, do you?

- Ukraines assassination attempt on pro Russian major https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Tuxl3RtQ1Y
says he is critical (this is unconfirmed so far by any other source)

- Poroshenk's speech to the people https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lsBrTiYQG8
doesn't look good for those in the east. Threatens to raise army and shut the east down and take back Crimea while EU applauds

- Washington pushes for new sanctions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymmT_ZYfhzU
so all actions of the separatists (such as this supposed abduction) justifies the US to further sanction Russia? Wow, is that fair or is it getting obvious yet that they want a fight?


So it appears that the term the media uses pertaining to Russia's "continued aggression" is only describing their re-acceptance of Crimea as a Russian state and therefore occupation thereof. Just when it looked like common ground was found to maybe resolve this issue, it seems the Ukraine leader is preparing for war.

Do you think that if Russia gave back Crimea(which would really hurt their economy and control of waters in the Black Sea), that NATO would be nice? NATO is cornering their enemy and will force war with Russia now or later. And yet we proceed with such aggressive behavior anyway.

This will not go well and is only likely being considered the better option by other NATO countries as economic collapse of the US dollar which would in turn destabilize their countries economies too. The consensus of mutual destruction seems to minimize the possibility of nuclear weapons being used while the lack of resources is another driving force to force decisions that would otherwise be different.

The bottom line appears that NATO needs further provocation to justify greater aggression against Russia. Since NATO didn't respond to Crimea's situation when it occurred, it looks even more unjustified to react now. NATO and UN countries still need the backing of the people and Syria showed many are not too eager to quench the bloodlust of their leaders as yet. I expect we will need an event to change this mindset as 9/11 did, to gain the public's support as they are the ones who inevitably do the fighting. Be prepared for such an event is likely near.
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Knuckle
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Re: Ukraine: Daily Update

Postby Knuckle » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:21 pm

08 Jun Afternoon

- Al Jazeera News: shelling continues outside Slaviansk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIIogJAwXTc

- assassination attempt of pro Russian leader a fail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64xyUMp0RJM
seems they killed a lookalike instead

- seems Putin is agreeing to tighten their border https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA4zmzFGm4E

- here is what many Ukraine links look like when blocked https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUB17007MZQ
there are many that seem to be censored these days stating the user account was terminated

- CCTV News: news up until the inauguration https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwqlcSB4mmY
the news that still makes it thru is now carefully presented or worded to be pro Ukraine only or otherwise banned. These agencies who were more obviously impartial before seem to have to present things with a more biased one sided view to make it past censorship on the web.

- BBC News: Poroshenko's peace plan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCzCw1QpEuU
it's not so peaceful if you consider he is not trying for peace talks and wants Crimea back too

-
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Knuckle
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Re: Ukraine: Daily Update

Postby Knuckle » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:14 am

09 Jun Evening

- Euro News: Ukraine president says he will stop all fighting by end of week https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1T36bCvfD0
but only after he has killed as many east Ukraines as they can...follow the rest of links below

- Aljazeera News: neo-fascist volunteers from Italy, Swede and even Russia train to fight the pro-Russians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpKaoy35blc
seems Kiev is willing to accept their help no matter how bad it reflects upon them.

- Bombed city of Semenivka https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EV8tC0CcmU
seems they don't leave much in their path of destruction....

- East Ukraine accuses Kiev of genocide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWK7rQh9xUM

- how Ukraine is recruiting soldiers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQaWa3WlYM

- bombing of Ossetia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9M97yPnCWc

- RT News: "Don't Kill Us" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbBSMev-kKc east Ukraine civilians ask in English Note

- Putin requires immediate cease fire https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajz40n3Bjec

Pretty hard not to see that we are on the side the fascists and hate mongers. Somehow our news media doesn't show this evidence which I present here daily. They can put a spin on their selected footage to convince you things are different, but that can't explain away this devastation that leaks out to show their lies. The resources which the EU require are in the east and it seems that we are to pretend this is just a minor squabble while the new government secures it....they say only a few rebels die and they deserve it anyway... right?

When Russia finally has had enough, we will claim that they interfere again, while we ignored the injustices that will have motivated them to action with clear conscience. We are not just in this and we need to wake up to this fact! This is the path to WW3 and our side seems determined to start a war with the king of the North!
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Knuckle
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Re: Ukraine: Daily Update

Postby Knuckle » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:25 pm

10 Jun Afternoon

- RT News; It's already a war https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMNm3rdqoGQ
interview with the rebels

- RT News: US gives $48 million to Ukraine and states no plans for missile defense inatllation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G6ddgvnkgA
[i]this is likely the clincher that got Putin to go along with them for now [/i]

- talks continue over gas dispute https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGTmESuo_mw

- Ukraine shelled its own people, soldiers from west refuse to go east to fight https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBKU-5_nGbA

- Ukraine PR officer claims Odessa massacre or pro-Russians was a committed by pro-Russians to expand their powers(really!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmVP8fyU69k
it starts at time 1:30. They go on to deny all incidents against them as usual

- Ukraine News: claim pro-Russian hiding behind civilians is why they have hard time clearing them out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VRHT0WsHMQ
I wonder if that excuse explains the leveling of cities with mortar shells?
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Knuckle
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Re: Ukraine: Daily Update

Postby Knuckle » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:53 am

11 Jun Evening

- Reuters News: seems tensions are still high in the east https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9Q60PCKT-M

- Ukraine using fire bombs on the east https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGUFipo0BaA

- News Loop: Russia gives Ukraine gas at old prices and Ukraine refuses deal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RA0ddVoHu0o

- Putin warns Ukraine that they should accept offer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bEC6xV7vi4

- Kiev National Guard wants to be paid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OE7bSjwphE

- US sends advisers & pledges 1 billion to Ukraine defense https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t3rWj61mjY

- BBC News: they try to make light of new Russia/China trade without using US dollar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcmtmRl2sRw

- US deploys bombers to European war games to further threaten Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eqyX0g5bNY
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prom
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:14 am
Location: Calgary
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Re: Ukraine: Daily Update

Postby prom » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:02 am

Knuckle wrote:11 Jun Evening


- US deploys bombers to European war games to further threaten Russia https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eqyX0g5bNY



I see you do choose your sources carefully. A news video from an Iranian TV (one of the countries that I suggested for you as potential immigration destination) and the discussion with the editor of Veterans Today from Atlanta. That's heavy duty I thought at first. An american from what appeared to be a serious publication criticizing US and european actions. After listening for a while I smeled the BS so I dug a bit deeper. I found very interesting that on the VT board of directors sit a former russian colonel (most likely KGB) and a former Pakistani intelligence officer. But wait, the chairman seems to be a serious person, a vietnam veteran and director of some defense group with swiss links. So did a google search and I found this interesting blog, Encyclopedia of American Loons. And there at # 636: Gordon Duff. Looks like he's a "serious promoter of Zionist conspiracy theories and a 9/11 truther" . I'm ready to bet 5$ that he's your idol knuckle.

http://americanloons.blogspot.ca/2013/0 ... -duff.html

I said to my self that I should at least check some of the articles on the site. So this one in particular drew my attention:

VT Nuclear Education: Undeniable Proof of 9/11 as a Nuclear Event

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/06/02 ... ear-event/

started reading and this is where I stopped:

<<<We have seen typhoons blocked and hurricanes created and in one instance, the use of an energy weapon to stop a storm blasting a hole 30km into the earth’s surface causing a quake and nearly a tsunami. We will begin publishing these documents too if we have to.>>>

And I have seen the three little pigs flying and I will publish the documents when they will.
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Knuckle
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Re: Ukraine: Daily Update

Postby Knuckle » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:33 am

prom wrote:
I see you do choose your sources carefully. A news video from an Iranian TV (one of the countries that I suggested for you as potential immigration destination) and the discussion with the editor of Veterans Today from Atlanta. That's heavy duty I thought at first. An american from what appeared to be a serious publication criticizing US and european actions. After listening for a while I smeled the BS so I dug a bit deeper.


OK, So I didn't waste time looking up the publisher....blah blah! The point of the article is that the US has deployed bombers into war games knowing that Russia wouldn't like it. You never focused on this issue or gave it a thought. You just saw a reason to discredit a post instead of working on what is happening in Ukraine and possible repercussions of each days events. There are other articles mentioning the war games and I could have selected one of them but didn't because it is really just another minor detail to add to the puzzle.....fill in enough pieces and we might get a true image of what is going on and the reasons behind it all. 8-)

In fact the video clip he uses is from VOA who is definitely pro USA all the way....so you will need to discredit them in the eyes of the viewer to really win on this point at all.
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Knuckle
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Re: Ukraine: Daily Update

Postby Knuckle » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:46 am

12 Jun Evening

- Ukraine dropped Phosphorus bomb on the east which is banned by UN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzCcBbP1VjA
pretty hard to defend them on this one,eh?

- US not answering about phosphorus bombing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAlriBkBuEE
She'll get back to ya on that one....I'm sure!

- seems rebels stole 3 Russian tanks and took them to the east to better fight Ukraine forces https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZiy-nHNLSY
I think Russia is gonna have to come take them back to look innocent in this...

- Obama states the US will help Ukraine get Crimea back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BIy1L8ln2A
US is publicly stating they are now going to back Ukraine in regaining Crimea. Seems Crimea wants to stay with Russia and this will spell trouble!

- Ukraine News: Ukraine army deploys to Donetsk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7GWp3WhwZQ

- RT News: Kiev needs control of east for brokered deal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtbU1cZCevc
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