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Malaysian Jet Shot Down Near Russian Border

Discussions regarding wars around the globe
Knuckle
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Re: Malaysian Jet Shot Down Near Russian Border

Postby Knuckle » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:41 pm

So here is a Russia's military evidence( translated into English)and presented to the UN. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bNPInuSqfs

They show they flight path, the change, satellite imagery showing a BUK system set up by the west Ukraine army. On 18 July,(@ time 8:20) 2 BUK systems were relocated 5 km from Donetsk. They left later that same day. They ask why the Ukraine army even has one of these set up as the eastern rebels don't have any aircraft (The obvious answer they don't state is that it is to target any Russian aircraft if they should fly over, but now they may have found another reason). At time 14:00 , they explain a military aircraft suddenly appears on radar(presumed a Ukraine fighter jet) and flew up to 30,000ft (which they can do only for a very short time) and within 5 km of MH17. At time 19:30 they show aircraft controller proof of this flight interception. Ukraine later denied having military aircraft in the area.

This is pretty damning evidence as to who did the shooting. At time 23:00 Russia states they spotted a US experimental missile detection system in the region. The US claim to have proof that the rebels committed this offense. They ask that the US release this proof to back up their claims and therefore discredit Russia's evidence shown here. They state that the US compare their data with Russia's to resolve this issue.

Next Russia debunks some false media put up on the web to point blame at Russia. Russia is definitely using all their resources to debunk propaganda against Russia.

This may be boring to follow but worth the watch.
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Knuckle
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Re: Malaysian Jet Shot Down Near Russian Border

Postby Knuckle » Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:40 pm

Here is a post showing the crash investigation is being prevented again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6u81ErRyMg

Did you note that it is the pro-Russians trying to aid them and that the Ukraine army is now the obstacle? They do not specify who is at fault but seem to have pro-Russian support. They look as if they were heading out and are being detained by conflict ahead. I know this can be seen from the opposite prospective as well but note that they are traveling in cars and not military vehicles. This likely means they expected to be given a green light by both sides. It is a civilian police that offered them escort and not soldiers, meaning they would likely not be implicit in a coverup compared to a military force providing escort. Therefore the pro-Russians are trying to win favour, not disfavour with the international community and likely assisted as best possible.
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Knuckle
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Re: Malaysian Jet Shot Down Near Russian Border

Postby Knuckle » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:15 pm

So the propaganda war continues.....

- RT News: since the US won't respond to Russia's evidence publicly, they seem to have their own satellite imagery showing Russia is bombing East Ukraine instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrMG7VYnN8I
RT is trying to debunk this here stating the US gov't would present this themselves if it were true

- pro Russians trying to debunk propaganda https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S99N97n_S94

- Russia invites US to check their borders for evidence regarding shelling or crash https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4kKQcTc-Ew
2 weeks have passed and no offers to accept offer.

- US & EU add more sanctions against Russia and bank of Moscow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQN0RfUU4QM
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Knuckle
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Re: Malaysian Jet Shot Down Near Russian Border

Postby Knuckle » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:41 am

Here is a good compilation of all pertinent questions we should be asking about the downing of MH17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mMXWFrYkaE
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Goldie
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Re: Malaysian Jet Shot Down Near Russian Border

Postby Goldie » Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:38 pm

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Jensen
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Re: Malaysian Jet Shot Down Near Russian Border

Postby Jensen » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:59 pm

If these social media posts can be verified don't they just prove that this is a case of mistaken identity ?. Similar to the Ukrainian shooting down of a Russian civilian passenger plane or the US shooting down a passenger jet in the Middle East mistaken it for a Iranian F14 Tomcat. If this is the real story this is a horrible case of accidental shooting down of a civilian airliner. This was not deliberate as the article suggests that the rebels thought they shot down a plane from the Ukrainian airforce.

This must foster another series of questions which the Russian has already put forward to the Internal community and which has been largely ignored in the west as they don't serve the interest of the US. Why was all other flights diverted to the South of the disputed area, why was this flight directed to fly on a Northerly route taking it over the disputed area knowing that the rebels had successfully shot down several planes in the previous week etc.

This whole affair stinks to high heaven but it has finally shown that the media machine that feeds citizens of the west has NO free will or desire to deviate from what lies and propaganda they are being fed through official channels. In short there is NO truth anymore. Everything you see and read is a spin to control your behaviour in a certain direction. Remember 1984 ?.
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Knuckle
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Re: Malaysian Jet Shot Down Near Russian Border

Postby Knuckle » Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:07 pm

I can't argue with your points, Jenson. Maybe the Russians are just a lot better at laying down the lies so they at least look like factual evidence. The CBC link is presenting hearsay evidence as if it is viable proof. They too make claims that there is further proof without presenting it. This shows that they too have fallen in line with presenting given mandate over doing their jobs and uncovering the evidence. This therefore leaves too many questions in the public mind such as:

- The Russians provide aerial shot showing the Buk's moving and set up on the day in question
- the US won't release it's own satellite prove to disprove this
- the US won't release any satellite proof to show the Russian's did it(other than some weak junk they won't take credit for)
- meanwhile, there is constant proof showing that the Ukrainian army is heavily bombarding the east
- there is never proof that the proRussians are killing anyone but their enemy
- there is never any proof that the Russian's are doing anything either, just accusations.....why?
- and let's not forget Jenson's points about redirecting the flight.

Now I must admit that at least CBC did some research into rebel tweeter sites to collect data against them. I'm sure that crap there can't be used in a court of law either or even the US would be on the line for we promote gossip. But it is not hard to see the direction our governments are trying to push us in. We have a common enemy pointed out to us, to rally against, let us go forth and slay him!

If this hearsay evidence of some soldiers phone call bragging of some intended action is valid proof to condemn all pro Russians, then this public interview of a western Ukrainian's view of those living in the east is absolute proof of intent to commit genocide and better explains the Ukraine's continual bombing of civilians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy5YZi6KsoE . He simply states that they are 4 million useless people that need to be killed as they have no purpose and they need the resources of the region... It's that simple! I can only marvel at how he presents this as simple logic!

By habit, when I cruise the news regarding this subject, I copy and paste the various links into a .doc file for possible posting here. After cruising is done, I start reviewing these links. I can average about 4 links per week that disappear before I get to include them. This means that You Tube has deleted them, or at least somehow removed them from my access... this is plain ol' censorship. As these are regarding Ukraine and Gaza only, how many others are being completely missed that they caught early and so no one even saw them? The one just yesterday was of Australian reporters showing the bombing of east Ukraine. Seems allies too are being censored to keep us on the straight and narrow path.
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prom
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Location: Calgary
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Re: Malaysian Jet Shot Down Near Russian Border

Postby prom » Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:38 am

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Knuckle
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Re: Malaysian Jet Shot Down Near Russian Border

Postby Knuckle » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:32 pm

- The first point is that if Malaysian airlines admitted to any unexplained course change, they are liable for those deaths and therefore open to lawsuit.

- The Russian government offered up the satellite imagery showing BUK missile deployment to the region. This means Russia directly takes the flak if later proven false by others.

- Reuters is not a US government representative. They present hearsay evidence (stating supposed facts from sources that cannot be traced) and the US cannot be blamed if proven false.

- Russia listed different US resources (satellite imagery, naval vessels in vicinity and drones) that could either prove or disprove Russian claims and requested the US compare (not demanded...subtle difference as their not directly accusing the US of committing this crime but leaving the door open) notes. Therefore by the US not cooperating implies immediate guilt....

- Finally, Russia has no motive. If they did, we'd be shouting it from the rooftops!

Putin wins this round in overall world opinion by creating the concept that he is showing all his cards while the US is not.

- Vice News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px2rfWBW4wg shows both sides opinions, shows much cooperation during investigation

The immediate finger pointing by the Ukraine government within minutes of the event showed foreknowledge of the event as the rest of the world required time too absorb the possible implications. The continual silence of the US government itself with reliance mainly on propaganda to direct the blame on Russia instead of factual government backed data alone implies US involvement.

There is just too much damning evidence to believe that Russia is behind this incident!

There are lots of links that I can give to contradict these suppositions with other suppositions of EU involvement but they'd be quickly challenged as we'd all sleep better just knowing we were in the right.
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Knuckle
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Re: Malaysian Jet Shot Down Near Russian Border

Postby Knuckle » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:39 am

I found this documentary regarding flight MH-17. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYfGcnTtQbE

Seems fairly unbiased in it's portrayal of seeking the truth after analyzing each event. Holland lost the most people and it shows their views while Australia returned many of the bodies to their home countries. They ask many decent questions and show surprising sights to what each side did and why during their investigation of this crash site. The remaining 2/3 of the video is based more on the conflict itself and is definitely more against Putin as Russia is perceived the unknown element in this conflict and unwilling to let Ukraine go to the EU. 43 minutes long but interesting throughout.
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