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US Attacks ISIL in Syria...any Guesses?

Discussions regarding wars around the globe
Knuckle
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Re: US Attacks ISIL in Syria...any Guesses?

Postby Knuckle » Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:03 pm

prom wrote:
This is what your idea of debate is, where everybody is on the same side. But anyways, what is your position on this matter? You only post stuff from RT but what do you think the international community do about this if anything?


Pretty hard to post anything else these days but RT. Seems that everything else is blocked (at least to my region). Even RT's comments seem to now be very cautionary to qualify. But I know you'll proclaim that everyone now believes the US acts of aggression as just. No, I don't believe all that is said in the above debate either, but I do believe that others should know that there are other viewpoints to hear and consider too, as all that we hear on our daily news is very one sided and even more biased.

Can you not put yourself in anothers place even for a moment to consider what it must be like to have a superpower play with all that you know in life? Imagine that your home and family are threatened overnight because the US decided to invade. But maybe thats a harsh word because they are only bombing it, right? Just as they did to Iraq and Libya.

Back to the point. So the question which they posed in the debate and I then did too was what will the US do when they run out of targets? They now hold the region in their control... a region/route that Russia needs to continue their trade with other nations. If they control this route, Russia will have to suffer further or finally retaliate. In this way, it will appear that Russia is the aggressor when in fact they are being forced to act.

I have shown the paths walked that lead me to this conclusion as a means to allow others to view them themselves and see whether they agree with the approach. It is obvious that you do not agree but also obvious as that you do not debate either. Instead you prefer character attack on myself as a means of swaying others instead. What you should be doing is present other reasons or possibilities that the US committed to this path. That is how a debate works.

The reason many nations fear these actions of the US is that they know this path leads to a clash of super powers and inevitably WW3. Without the protests of many nations against this act, war is eminent. Without the people protesting to their governments not to allow such acts, their government will just remain quiet. Without a voice of protest from you and me, others around us will remain quiet. We consider the majority of the people "sheeple" when your don't even hold out your own sleeve to note that you wear the same clothing as the rest of them do.
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prom
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Re: US Attacks ISIL in Syria...any Guesses?

Postby prom » Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:04 am

Why didn't you start the thread by presenting this events from the very beginning. With the rise of ISIS and all the atrocities they done in the region. I bet that if you were a Yazidi on Mount Sinjar surrounded by crazy jihadists knowing that if they will ever get to you they will kill you and your family, then you would have prayed for US to bomb the SOBs to hell. And all because you didn't accept their truth. And that was just one story. Or maybe you think all that is US propaganda to justify throwing some bombs? I wouldn't be surprised.
Anyways, I don't see US going and bombing people just for their own interests. In Bosnia they did it to stop the massacre of muslims and croats by the Serbian army. In Libia to help Gadaffi's opposition to oust the dictator. Now they are doing it to help the Iraki army take back control of their own country. I asked you a question but I don't think I got an answer. Are you saying that US and the International Community do nothing and let ISIS proclaim their caliphate killing thousands of innocent people based on different religion beliefs and different ethnicity?

I didn't attack you, just your posts. And I showed why, point by point, but you never replied to that.
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Knuckle
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Re: US Attacks ISIL in Syria...any Guesses?

Postby Knuckle » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:10 pm

I would never argue that any kind of terrorist is just. The killing of innocent people at random has no positive solution, even for the terrorists themselves. It only creates anarchy and chaos. Therefore, this must be their intention as there is no other logical answer to this methodology. So then let us ask why.

It is hard to imagine that a bunch of blood thirsty psychopaths could even get along together for very long, as their nature would likely preclude that it is "kill first or be killed" by the fellow next to you. And since these terrorists are not doing this, it shows that even they still have a grip on reality, though it is somewhat twisted. Therefore, since they still have some rationals thoughts floating in the brains, they must then have other motivation to justify these actions.

Someone is obviously paying them to commit these acts or they'd need a job to support these endeavours in their spare time. And since there is so many of them, it's obviously someone with a lot of money and a final objective to justify this expenditure. So the next line of rational thought should be to determine this motive. What could the gain be to pay an army to create chaos in Iraq and Syria?

Now as I mentioned at the start, I am just starting to focus on this conflict as I put alot of time into Ukraine and did not want to confuse the viewers with multiple speculations as that is what much of the daily news was doing to me. I didn't even really know the differences between ISIL and ISIS but found the is article to clarify it http://allenbwest.com/2014/08/obamas-us ... ds-israel/
The author professes that the US's constant use of ISIL (instead of ISIS) precludes the existence of Israel and even the selection of one versus the other should then be considered a threat by Israel. I don't know, you tell me if that is what you conclude after watching the link.

Now we've also heard that the Arab nations may be the ones sponsoring ISIS....
- Are they also not assisting the US in this latest endevour to stop them?
- Are they too not closely tied to US oil interests and co partner in many US oil endevours?
- Why is it that the two major suspects who would benefit from this conflict created by ISIS are the same two who are confronting them?
- When we already have proof that ISIS was trained by the US just as the Talaban had once been too, why do we so quickly accept that these folks no longer follow US direction, especially when that direction is of benefit to the US?
- Why would the US now come to the aid of an enemy that they failed to subdue the year earlier?
- Why does this action also conveniently threaten Russia's trade with other nations?

These are questions I ask though I'm still learning the implications of this conflict. I'm sure that there are many other questions that should be mentioned but as yet,I just have to realize them first. I do suspect the US has alot to do with many aspects of this as that is what the CIA is for these days. Show other potential suspects who have something to gain and we can then follow them up too.
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Goldie
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Re: US Attacks ISIL in Syria...any Guesses?

Postby Goldie » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:03 am

ISIS used to be al-Qaeda in Iraq ( 2004 )

Everything you wanted to know about the rise of ISIS

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/09/ ... explained/

Article says they have seized oil assets, and making up to $ 3 million / day on black market.
So they don't need any " backers " unless, those backers are the ones buying the oil on the black market.
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Knuckle
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Re: US Attacks ISIL in Syria...any Guesses?

Postby Knuckle » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:27 pm

Goldie wrote:ISIS used to be al-Qaeda in Iraq ( 2004 )

Everything you wanted to know about the rise of ISIS

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/09/ ... explained/

Article says they have seized oil assets, and making up to $ 3 million / day on black market.
So they don't need any " backers " unless, those backers are the ones buying the oil on the black market.


Now that was a good article. It shows that ISIS might indeed be self sufficient if it had oil sales contracts. But after reading it, a few questions did arise again.

- if the US knows these leaders, it is only a matter of time before they who die by drone strike
- why haven't the US just bombed these black market oil refineries? $3 million per day profit would require a substantial organization of hundreds of workers
- which nations have a reduction in oil imports to be suspect of purchasing and supporting this black market oil trade?
-the article is produced by CNN, who is well known to spread US propaganda

But this is how collected information can let each of us better determine what is really going on. It is a pro US aspect that may explain the financial backing or may not.
So for now, lets presume this is where they get their money. At least it shows that ISIS has a steady income and then one could expect that this would be a tap worth shutting off.

The next question was what could the gain be to pay an army to create chaos in Iraq and Syria? Your article put me back on this next path where I found this pro-US article which at least criticizes US past decisions http://www.vox.com/2014/8/8/5982501/the ... nt-in-iraq
The video in the middle shows the expansion of ISIS and how it is managing to gain it's strength in Iraq and Syria.
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prom
Posts: 236
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Location: Calgary
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Re: US Attacks ISIL in Syria...any Guesses?

Postby prom » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:24 am

<<<Are you confused by what is going on in the Middle East? Let me explain.
We support the Iraqi government in the fight against the Islamic State.
We don’t like IS, but IS is supported by Saudi Arabia, whom we do like.
We don’t like President Assad in Syria. We support the fight against him, but not IS, which is also fighting against him.
We don’t like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government against IS.

So, some of our friends support our enemies and some of our enemies are our friends, and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies, whom we want to lose, but we don’t want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win.

If the people we want to defeat are defeated, they might be replaced by people we like even less. And all this was started by us invading a country to drive out terrorists who weren’t actually there until we went to drive them out?

Do you understand now? >>>

http://moneytalks.net//peters-content/1 ... s-mud.html

I don't know about you but to me it's more clear now what's going on over there :D. The only thing I don't understand is how the saudis can support a monstrosity like ISIS
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Knuckle
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Re: US Attacks ISIL in Syria...any Guesses?

Postby Knuckle » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:03 pm

It's nice to see that others are asking the same questions that I do. I'm sure that there is an agenda, it's just that we haven't sorted what it is. It must be to keep the middle east weak by battling each other. Maybe we fear that if all the Muslims united, they'd be too strong a force to reckon with. But it does appear that the Saudi's are likely on the same page as the US or they'd have been at each others throats by now.

Why can't there be at least one of these conflicts where we can get fully behind our government knowing that we truly are only there to help. Instead we find real proof that our neighbour has dirtied their hands in each one. Also knowing that the war is being fought with many US made weapons doesn't help calm the doubts of thinking were being played.

Ever since 9/11, our world has been continually filled with conspiracy theories as each event lead to the next, leaving a trail of suspicion in it's wake for all to step over as we were fed more patriotic speech. Even though it took weeks for ground zero to cool from the lake of molten metal which pooled at it's base, no one dared to ask aloud why it was even there! We did not want to hear the answer......
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Knuckle
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Re: US Attacks ISIL in Syria...any Guesses?

Postby Knuckle » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:51 am

I am pleased to hear that both the Liberal and NDP stated today that they won't back Harper's plans to partake in the Syrian conflict. This is because it is hard to see the whole picture of what is really going on. I did a review of the previous conflict back in 2013 as a refresher to see if there were similar discrepancies to better sort things out. It is hard to follow some of this stuff further now but I do remember this following video and found it worked as a quick refresher flashback. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE2kMWNJomo
The US quickly dropped the issue of the use sarin gas and that alone was suspicious. It was the accumulation of similar suspicious events that eventually lost them public backing and therefore the planned invasion of Syria never cam to pass.

Yet here we are again and motives are again interfering with the story at hand. Seems that it is hard to have a lie ready for every question asked to explain events leading to this place in time. That is what often happens when one tells a lie, right? You weave a story to justify an action, but you miss a detail that places doubt upon the lie told...so you tell another lie to cover for the last one....and soon enough the lie becomes more obvious to all. This is why the truth is so much easier to tell. The justifications are so much easier to explain when they are true ones and therefore far easier for the listeners to accept.
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Knuckle
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Re: US Attacks ISIL in Syria...any Guesses?

Postby Knuckle » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:24 pm

The following is from Iran news so you can see their view on US intervention in Syria.

- Press TV: what are Turkey's intentions in Syria? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frODQq0ObGs
Is Turkey just following orders from their US counterparts? Iran has warned them not to intervene.

- Press TV: A debate on Turkey's role in Syria https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa3l7tepaZA
Is this a ploy to take over Syria?

- Press TV: Syrian army retakes 3 villages https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h7Ksp7j1N0
They do this on their own without US aid as they don't work together. Their reasoning is the US is trying to impose their own government after they destroy ISIL.
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Knuckle
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Re: US Attacks ISIL in Syria...any Guesses?

Postby Knuckle » Thu Oct 09, 2014 2:23 am

John Stewart rips into Obama's F*ck ya ISIS speech https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SUfmxpOiWk :D
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