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ISIS and the apocalypse

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RT_survive
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ISIS and the apocalypse

Postby RT_survive » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:45 pm

The Syrian town of Dabiq is where the Prophet Mohammed is supposed to have predicted that the armies of Islam and "Rome" would meet for the final battle that will precede the end of time and the triumph of true Islam.


When American aid worker Peter Kassig was murdered by ISIS in November, "Jihadi John" -- the masked British murderer who has appeared in so many ISIS videos -- said of Kassig: "We bury the first crusader in Dabiq, eagerly waiting for the rest of your armies to arrive."

In other words, ISIS wants a Western ground force to invade Syria, as that will confirm the prophecy about Dabiq.

We live in an increasingly secularized world, so it's sometimes difficult to take seriously the deeply held religious beliefs of others. For many of us the idea that the end of times will come with a battle between "Rome" and Islam at the obscure Syrian town of Dabiq is as absurd as the belief that the Mayans had that their human sacrifices could influence future events.

But for ISIS, the Dabiq prophecy is deadly serious. Members of ISIS believe that they are the vanguard fighting a religious war, which Allah has determined will be won by the forces of true Islam.


Basically, they're trying to hasten their religion's prophesied end-of-the-world.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/16/opinion/bergen-isis-enemies/index.html
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helicopilot
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Re: ISIS and the apocalypse

Postby helicopilot » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:46 pm

Maybe humour isn't the best answer to this, but im thinking that "Rome" answering with a B52 loaded with pigs aimed at downtown Dabiq would surely ruined their planned battle on those grounds.... ;p

Joke aside, believing that a profecy has been fulfilled doesn't make it truth. So I'm not sure it would change much if there were to be a battle there.
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RT_survive
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Re: ISIS and the apocalypse

Postby RT_survive » Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:08 pm

I think it would be fun to call them on it and play their game. What better way to get them all in one place, no?
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Re: ISIS and the apocalypse

Postby Antsy » Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:36 am

In an increasingly secularized world, this is how the "non-secular" assert themselves. They are hammering nails into their own coffins. I weep for their children........ Oh! Are those beer nuts?
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helicopilot
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Re: ISIS and the apocalypse

Postby helicopilot » Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:48 am

Antsy,

ISIS (and the Tallibans for that matter) has nothing to do with religion. They are a group of Muslems with their very own take on things, interpreting the Qu'uran in their very own way to suit their inner desires. Calling this a matter of religion is actually giving them credentials and accepting the justification - their ill interpreted faith - they offer for their fight. It's not a matter of secularism on the West part just as much as their war has really nothing to do with Islam.
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Re: ISIS and the apocalypse

Postby Antsy » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:31 am

helicopilot wrote:Antsy,

ISIS (and the Tallibans for that matter) has nothing to do with religion. They are a group of Muslems with their very own take on things, interpreting the Qu'uran in their very own way to suit their inner desires. Calling this a matter of religion is actually giving them credentials and accepting the justification - their ill interpreted faith - they offer for their fight. It's not a matter of secularism on the West part just as much as their war has really nothing to do with Islam.


Helicopilot,

I will have to assume that you yourself are a follower of Islam and are therefore saying that the radicals mentioned above "do not speak for you". I myself am not a follower of any religion and therefore have to take a non-secular person at their word. If a Catholic tells me that she believes that the communion host actually becomes the flesh of Christ once consumed; who am I to say that it is not in fact her belief or that her faith is ill interpreted? Similarly, if a radical Islamist declares boldly that he is devout in his beliefs and wishes to be a martyr for his beliefs, I can only take him at his word and assume his sincerity. To do otherwise would be to project my own politically correct perspectives upon their persons. I may believe that the Catholic knows in her heart of hearts that the communion host transfiguration is merely metaphor; however I am running a risk of projecting my own world view upon her world view.
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helicopilot
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Re: ISIS and the apocalypse

Postby helicopilot » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:37 pm

Antsy,

You make a good argument. I'm not Muslim, rather, a practicing Christian; I have several close friends who are Muslims though. The issue at hand is justifying their action solely on a basis of faith, which can't be. To the same extent that I can't associate with the infra-Christian fightings of say, Ireland. Killing a Catholic believer wouldn't make me a better Protestant and in the process, would violate one of the 10 commandments that my beliefs try to uphold (among other things). Using the Irish example, the in-fighting has now little to do with Religion, it merely defines the belligerents, but it's rather the culture and society that is the source of friction.
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Re: ISIS and the apocalypse

Postby Jensen » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:24 pm

helicopilot wrote:Antsy,

ISIS (and the Tallibans for that matter) has nothing to do with religion. They are a group of Muslems with their very own take on things, interpreting the Qu'uran in their very own way to suit their inner desires. Calling this a matter of religion is actually giving them credentials and accepting the justification - their ill interpreted faith - they offer for their fight. It's not a matter of secularism on the West part just as much as their war has really nothing to do with Islam.


Isis has everything to do with the Islamic religion. If you are a Sunni Muslim or Shia Muslim you take the teachings in the Quran word for word. In the western world you will come across Muslims (Sunni and Shia) who have western ideals while being of Muslim faith. I compare that to a western Atheist who has the freedom to think differently. They confuse westerners who think "they are like us really" or this is real Islam". This leads them to make apologetic excuses for terrible behaviour and for giving in to a demanding culture in order to appease another religion. I hear things like "well the majority are peaceful Muslims" etc. I am sure that they are too. However they all follow a faith strictly which makes them pray 5 times a day and go to a weekly session where they are being "indoctrinated" in their religion. All followers of the Quran have only two wishes: 1. To use this life to please their God so they can gain entrance into heaven in the next life anyway possible. 2. To see Islam dominate as a world religion.

But that is not so bad after all some Christians want to see Christianity being the one and only religion right ?. Well yes... I guess. Except in a strict Sharia society which is what living under Islam will be (do not fool yourself here it is called a Sharia society) women will loose their rights (no leaving the house without male escort, father/brother permission, women covered in abaya, no driving a car or riding a bicycle, no voting etc, followers of other faiths will be forced to change faith or pay a tax and then live like second degree citizens in a Apartheid society where you are discriminated due to your skin colour or in this case religious beliefs. Crime punishments will be different from what we know in the western world but it will be no different from what is practiced in the Islamic countries today. All this will be new to westerners but everyday to most Muslims - it must be good if its prescribed in the Quran right ?.

I have worked in Saudi Arabia and travelled the Middle East and I have seen first hand what kind of society they have to offer the world. It is exactly what Isis is implementing but we cannot criticize Saudi Arabia can we ?. But working there you have religious police enforcing Sharia law everywhere. We men can easily live there if we change our faiths but it will be a severe step back for women. It will be a very comfortable life for men but a hard life for women. But is it really worth swapping our western life styles for ?. Because that is where we are heading (in 10, 50, 100 years time) by sticking our heads in the sand and trying to say that there is no problems. We need to make Islam change into a modern religion similar to the reformation and development we have seen in western society's with their religious faiths. Without that fundamental change in Islamic perception of the world and how it really should be and not least what your God wants we will never achieve that peaceful religion I keep hearing about.

If the Saudi's could institute their life styles and religion on the western world tomorrow they would. Then we would in fact be living in a Sharia society just like the Isis dominated areas. Do not let a Religion 1200 years old with no changes, challenges or reflections of modern day society fool you. When Isis talk about world domination that dream is also shared by most Muslims.

Does this mean that we cannot live with Muslims here in Canada ?. Absolutely not but they have to understand that we will challenge their beliefs but not their right to believe and there is the fundamental difference between the modern western world and Islam.
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Re: ISIS and the apocalypse

Postby Perfesser » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:02 am

Great post Jensen
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helicopilot
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Re: ISIS and the apocalypse

Postby helicopilot » Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:51 am

Good post indeed Jensen, but I don't think anyone here suggested that it would be a "good idea" to let the western world become a Sharia society. Anywho, I may have caused this post to derail and that was not the intent. The point I was trying to make is that we collectively should do everything possible not to give ISIS a semblance of recognition or legitimacy as it would just boost their spirit that they are accomplishing their caliphates (and beloved prophecies).
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