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Moral Obligations To Non-Preppers What would you do?

General Preparedness Discussions
Goldie
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Re: Moral Obligations To Non-Preppers What would you do?

Postby Goldie » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:02 am

OldTimeGardener wrote:Goldie, how much ya wanna bet they would soon lose any interest in your place/supplies.
Between the mice and you askin for THEIR help, should do it. ;)

And if that doesn't work... add in:
" you should see what they did to my extra bedding and such!"


LOVE IT

I would just change the wording
" Cause I am about to give up on prepping "

to something more discouraging because it still sounds like you will still be prepping , and
since they already think you ( or I ) are nuts, when the SHTF they might start thinking
after a week ,.... I wonder if that prepper nut can help us out, he won't really turn us away
will he ?

Speaking of relatives, one of my siblings just said today that they need to restock their
cupboards now that xmas and new years is over. This really tells you how fragile many peoples
food supplies are. If a bad snow storm happened right now , ..... they would be in trouble.
I told them to always buy more tins and stock items than you need every time you go shopping
and gradually build up your supplies.
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Goldie
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Re: Moral Obligations To Non-Preppers What would you do?

Postby Goldie » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:58 pm

Speaking on the cost of foods, and sharing with moochers,
has anyone noticed the increased high price of the brands
of Dehydrated / Freez Dried foods, now with the US/Can exchange rate.
Prices have really gone up.

In Canada a #10 tin of freeze dried Bananas is $ 51.95 ( nutristore brand )
or
a 24 #10 variety fruit pack for $ 1195.95 = 49.83 / tin

Anyone using these #10 tins, knows while they are good to have, they would be
expensive to be feeding moochers let alone ourselves. I do keep selected items
in these items.

Very glad I bought a dehydrator.

With this is mind try explaining to those non preppers that this stuff is too expensive
to give away or share with them.

These are items to be kept hidden .
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helicopilot
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Re: Moral Obligations To Non-Preppers What would you do?

Postby helicopilot » Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:07 pm

I find it hard to think that in a serious long term type of event, a lot of loved ones would simply perish, likely of a slow death such as starvation.

I live quite a ways away from the reminder of my extended family (and in-laws - some of you may think it's better that way...) for work reason. I was saddened to hear that a relatively short power outage of ~ 8 hours (1 PM to 9 PM) left my mom in an uncomfortable situation a few days ago. She had to rely on driving to the local McD to warm up and eat a hot dinner. We went over some basic options to heat up some canned food (of which she had little) and how she could get light and heat (an oil lamp in a closed up bedroom and lots of blankets).

This made me realized that she is probably more the "norm" than the exception in as far as basic preparedness goes. In the event of a long term event, I would be unable to get to her to assist...
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Dakota
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Re: Moral Obligations To Non-Preppers What would you do?

Postby Dakota » Mon Feb 01, 2016 7:29 pm

Our group have discussed this issue, and likely will continue to! It's not a black and white answer...ever! Inviting in people who didn't prepare (or lost their preps) would be a constantly changing discussion. Yes, I get the "I know where I'm going!", mostly from friends! And....yes, the answer is...."no, I wouldn't, not unless you have months stored to feed your own family. I would hate to have to shoot at friends!!!" :D There is a bit of an awkward silence afterwards, but I find it sometimes offers me a chance to voice 'the importance of being responsible for your own family' speech! If it sinks in, it sinks in! If not...what more can be done?

Your preps should be kept private because of these things. Sometimes it's impossible to keep from the eyes of family or close friends. At the same time, these same people may believe this type of prepping is overboard and therefore ridiculous! I've heard these types of comments from my own family!! "It will never happen in my time", "would you really want to live, if it were THAT bad!", "you should invest all that money your throwing away into preps", all these comments and others that are down right critical about my mental stability or my parenting!(really not worth repeating). Thing is...I don't even consider my prepping lifestyle extreme! Sort of makes me laugh thinking about it now. I learn how to homestead! Animals, water collection, garden, hunting-really I'm just a modern day pioneer! :lol:

Bottom line...and it was a group decision: anyone shows up at the gate that's not on a list (those that have preps stored for)
Will be a group vote. A vote to take in, a vote to give aid to and then send away, or a vote that we need to protect ourselves if attacked. That includes family or friends that I did not get the opportunity to prep for, because the reality is...prepping takes time and money! It's not fair to the persons in the group that did prep. 'Fair' is an understatement!!!
That is why we and the people in our group, try to prep for as many people as we can! Also...never stop talking to those you love about the importance of prepping! Maybe one day, as the world gets scarier and scarier...it will strike a cord with them! In the mean time...what does it really matter, what they think of you!
Last edited by Dakota on Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Goldie
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Re: Moral Obligations To Non-Preppers What would you do?

Postby Goldie » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:52 pm

I use the method of prepping ahead , where I use my stash of supplies as my current stock also, so that everything gets rotated .
So for example, every time I use 1 bag of rice , when I shop next I buy 2 or 3 bags. So my supplies build up gradually but I am still rotating the stock.
The dating on my supplies have not gotten out of date this way. It makes me more aware of what I have, what I am using and what I am NOT using.

However doing all this , we must consider how taking in people with no preps will effect us, singles and smaller groups will be
affected the most.

If you are a one person lone prepper and take in one person, where your supplies should have lasted 3 months , your stash is now
down to 1.5 months

If you are a 2 person prepping team and take in one person = 3 people now, where your supplies should have lasted 3 months , your stash in cut
down to 2 months .

If you are a 4 person prepping team and take in one person = 5 people now , where your supplies should have lasted 3 months, your stash in cut
down to 2.4 months.

If you are a 8 person prepping team and take in one person, where your supplies should last 3 months , your stash is cut by less of an effect, your stash in cut
down to 2.6 months

12 people taking on one extra to 13 would be cut down to 2.7 months.

Clearly there is going to be different answers depending on size of your group.
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Danux
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Re: Moral Obligations To Non-Preppers What would you do?

Postby Danux » Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:51 pm

I try not to advertise that I'm prepping, except to those I would consider taking in. If someone notices/asks my habit, I "...just keep a well-stocked pantry..." and don't comment on the extra equipment I've acquired to make the transition from a convenient, grid-connected functioning economy, to self-sufficiency. If things go abruptly bad then being a prime target, for the least-prepared, is going to make things instantly worse for you. Hide in plain sight when things are "normal".

Having the ability to place some physical distance (ie >one tank of fuel) between the unprepared "friendlies" and yourself makes wrestling with the moral dilemma quite a bit easier - it's not like you have to turn the lights out and pretend you're not home, when they come looking for nourishment & warmth.

If, somehow, they were make it to my distant door, then I think it would be reasonable to expect them to earn their keep, *if* you are able to support them. Most people have a useful skill that they can bring to the table, or can perform simple tasks given direction, but I would establish early on that the goal would be to make them self-sufficient & independent, *themselves*, ASAP. I'd also establish a time limit immediately, and discuss how you can help them get there and what you are able to supply them with, what they shouldn't expect.

I think being able to turn your back on the whole circumstance and follow through with your game plan, is one prepping "skill" worth cultivating. We all ultimately lay in the beds we make for ourselves, even if the Sdoesn'tHTF.

.
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Antsy
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Re: Moral Obligations To Non-Preppers What would you do?

Postby Antsy » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:37 pm

What a cold bunch of bastards!

The shit hasn't even hit the fan and all I read are fantasies where preppers get to tell their doubters to pound sand. You guys (and gals) don't seem to get it; the whole idea of a social contract and the fact that, by no credit to yourselves, you live in a country that is terribly resistant to a large scale SHTF fantasy. Instead, a friend or family member will get laid off, be diagnosed with cancer, get divorced, family member will die unexpectantly, or something similar. Will you be that piece of shit who asks if they can pull their weight in order to lean on you? Or will you instead, step up and offer a little support to that person who is considered a loved one so long as nothing is ever asked of you?

I don't mean to step on your armageddon fantasies; what ever floats your boat. Just please don't share your self indulgent fantasies with the grown ups who know enough to jerk off in private. At my age, I just don't have the patience for it. People I know and love are being diagnosed with cancer; they are being laid off from long careers, and their kids or family are ODing on weird street drugs that didn't even exist when I was a kid. What do I do about it? I offer whatever support I can and it never seems like enough! Your self indulgent fantasies are about as deep as a puddle. Try spending a little time in the real world.

So what are your moral obligations to people who don't share your prepping hobby? I guess it depends on whether you have shut out the human race and your community in support of your rich imagination. If you have - keep it to yourselves.

In the meantime, keep a full tank of gas in your tank. Keep an emergency bag in your vehicle and extra supplies in your home. Buy RRSPs if you hope to live past 65, and for goodness sake's try to make the world a better place than you have found it.

Rant over.

Antsy
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helicopilot
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Re: Moral Obligations To Non-Preppers What would you do?

Postby helicopilot » Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:27 am

Antsy wrote:What a cold bunch of bastards!

The shit hasn't even hit the fan and all I read are fantasies where preppers get to tell their doubters to pound sand. You guys (and gals) don't seem to get it; the whole idea of a social contract and the fact that, by no credit to yourselves, you live in a country that is terribly resistant to a large scale SHTF fantasy. Instead, a friend or family member will get laid off, be diagnosed with cancer, get divorced, family member will die unexpectantly, or something similar. Will you be that piece of shit who asks if they can pull their weight in order to lean on you? Or will you instead, step up and offer a little support to that person who is considered a loved one so long as nothing is ever asked of you?

I don't mean to step on your armageddon fantasies; what ever floats your boat. Just please don't share your self indulgent fantasies with the grown ups who know enough to jerk off in private. At my age, I just don't have the patience for it. People I know and love are being diagnosed with cancer; they are being laid off from long careers, and their kids or family are ODing on weird street drugs that didn't even exist when I was a kid. What do I do about it? I offer whatever support I can and it never seems like enough! Your self indulgent fantasies are about as deep as a puddle. Try spending a little time in the real world.

So what are your moral obligations to people who don't share your prepping hobby? I guess it depends on whether you have shut out the human race and your community in support of your rich imagination. If you have - keep it to yourselves.

In the meantime, keep a full tank of gas in your tank. Keep an emergency bag in your vehicle and extra supplies in your home. Buy RRSPs if you hope to live past 65, and for goodness sake's try to make the world a better place than you have found it.

Rant over.

Antsy


While you make a good argument Antsy, I think the context of the discussion isn't about helping others when you have the ressources but rather when everyone is facing the reality that ressources aren't available to anyone. In your example, it would completely make sense to help someone because you have the ressources to do so and don't expect not to have access to those ressources in the foreseeable future. What I mean by that is that if a friend lose their job and you decide to host them for an indefinite while, you can still go grocery shopping and feed your family +1.

I don't think that you have to have too much imagination to find those "armageddon fantaisies" situation when ressources become scarce. Take from example hurricane Katrina, or the Quebec Ice Storm of 98. Or going further back, the recession of the 1930s. I don't suggest you shoot the first person that comes at your door, but if you have say a month worth of food put away for your family, if you take in an extra whole family (neighbours, family), you do end up effectively stretching yourself thin.

The frustration is that while some people spend quite a bit of their disposable income prepping (to whatever extent it is), that one can find it difficult to share all that hard earn work with someone that spent life away partying in a more hedonist kind of way. Reminds me of "Les Fables de LaFontaine : la Cigale et la Fourmi" I learnt when a kiddo.
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HopeImReady
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Re: Moral Obligations To Non-Preppers What would you do?

Postby HopeImReady » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:02 pm

I see the point of this discussion to be where each person's boundaries are - what someone is willing to sacrifice to help others, particularly others who spend their time & money on other things and then expect help. Everyone has a different grey zone of to what extent they will help family, and then maybe further out, extended family, friends, neighbors, community, etc without screwing yourself or your immediate loved ones or exposing them to danger. I agree that many crises are more mundane, but for those of us who have lived through natural disasters, come from war zones and/or lived in areas where there is extreme poverty, it is not a self-indulgent fantasy and is the "real world" for some, unfortunately - in which people must decide who they can and will help.
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helicopilot
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Re: Moral Obligations To Non-Preppers What would you do?

Postby helicopilot » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:38 am

One thing that seem to have been omitted is that additional people don't necessarily linearly take away from you. Having additional people showing up may have a positive effect due to synergies. For example a family of 2 adults and a couple of kids may benefit from the addition of an extra adult by having extra manpower to cultivate the garden, go hunting or to go scavenge, hence actually contributing to the overall food situation. In the grand scheme of thing, heat, shelter, electricity generation, etc changes little should extra people turn up (again, this may help as they may be used to chop extra wood for example), so the main limiting factor would be food.
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