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Vehicles

General Preparedness Discussions
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cernunnos5
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Re: Vehicles

Postby cernunnos5 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:52 am

Oh!!! That was my 666th post. I think I will celebrate with a musical interlude. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mHe6FMs46o rock on.
Of course, This will be 667, the neighbours of the beast.
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I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.

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Allegro
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Location: Hamilton, ON

Re: Vehicles

Postby Allegro » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:40 am

Hey cernunnos5,

I'm quite aware of the pitfalls of bugging out. I'm not fond of the term in fact since it really refers to the notion that you're running away from something, leaving a life behind. I prefer to think of the idea of heading towards something safe. Ideally already living in a relatively safe area works best. Day to day life is often balanced along with the best laid plans. Thats what I'm talking about. Would living in northern Ontario be a preferable spot? Yeah it would be. Can we all manage that at the current time? No. Keep in mind that, yes, in fact some people are new to this. For me, since about 2010. Running for the hills is not at all what I would recommend most everybody attempt. Those among us with extended experience in the bush (7 days+) will understand how difficult things can get. I'd love to hear about your own insights about longterm success in another thread perhaps.

Speaking of talking about things.... lets get back on the topic at hand. What else besides a bicycle (see 3 post above) do you drive / ride? Everyone's input is welcome.

M

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Denob
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Re: Vehicles

Postby Denob » Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:27 pm

Right now we have 2 vehicles...neither of them ideal for bugging out.
1 - 2001 chevy venture...to be replaced in about 2 years with a Jeep Wrangler.
2 - 2001 Taurus...to be replaced in about 1 year with a 4 x 4 pickup. Not fussy on the make/model, but needs a good sized rear bench seat for the kiddies and pouches and a large enough box to put a camper box on.
Other than that, I agree with the bikes and will be working on some cargo options to go with the ones we have.
Also, this fall, I will be working on a dog sled, as both my pouches are good strong breeds that love to pull (one huskey and one pittbull/boxer)
I will look into a wheeled cart for summer use with them too.
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cernunnos5
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Re: Vehicles

Postby cernunnos5 » Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:49 pm

Well, There is the 1992 corolla station wagon which is our work horse. After that we have a disposable truck when we need a bit more weight but that uses double the gas. A flat deck cargo trailer when we need to move stuff (Firewood, hay, etc) or rescue the motorcycles. 2 MCs though bikes aren't as fuel efficient as most people think. About half of the corolla. Mrs C5 is planning to sell her Katana soon and bump way down to a Suzuki DR200SE (big jump down) the new ones, not the old ones because it has ridiculously low fuel consumption (most small MCs are ridiculously bad on gas) and can be lifted.
After that, a 1957 Massey Ferguon 35 | Vintage tractor witch will probably be the last vehicle running.

And 6 cargo bikes (plus a few trailers) which are the only thing I would trust in a crisis. My fuel storage wont last that long so it gets rationed immediately. Priority goes to the chainsaw, the backup generator if we lose the solar...and the tractor

For snow, we each have fitted skies and a home made dog sled

Ewww...668 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZtKbiJy8ZU
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Re: Vehicles

Postby Knuckle » Sun Jul 13, 2014 5:29 pm

Allegro wrote:Hey cernunnos5,

I'm quite aware of the pitfalls of bugging out. I'm not fond of the term in fact since it really refers to the notion that you're running away from something, leaving a life behind. I prefer to think of the idea of heading towards something safe. Ideally already living in a relatively safe area works best. Day to day life is often balanced along with the best laid plans. Thats what I'm talking about. Would living in northern Ontario be a preferable spot? Yeah it would be.
RV.png


Nice RV Allegro! looks alot like mine! The comment of bugging out is something I often wonder if folks have taken much time to really ponder on. I think many see the adventure aspect without considering the reality of it all. The knowledge that your trip is limited by one's fuel supply should be the first nerve test. Then that concept that a rolling stone gathers no moss...more like a wandering family harvest's no food! Thus your food stores are limited by all that you can carry along maybe with water too....did I just ruin the adventure?

I can relate to the bike escape vehicle as I've been into bikes since a young kid. My choice would be more the BMW G650 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19X9eI2MPL4 as it is a decent adventure bike both on & off road, very reliable and a used one would cost no more than your choice of dirt bike. You could strap alot of gear on it and still not destroy the handling. (bet some thought I'd push Harley's cause that's all I own :lol: ). I live in NW Ontario so I too think it is a good bugout location as it is all lakes and trees, and more lakes and trees!

No, I don't have alot of money and I'm downsizing my lifestyle to simpler means as quick as I can. My RV is a 27 ft Class A much like that shown above. They sell cheap nowadays because most folks can't afford to drive them far. This is obvious when you go to purchase one. A 30 year old RV often has less than 50,000 km on it. Most just drive them to the nearest park and squat at a campsite as it is too expensive to travel in. And old ones are often is quite good shape as they were rarely used. I bought mine a few years back for $5000 and it had a $1000 hitch already installed, a 6.2 diesel engine and an Onan 4000 kw onboard generator to boot. And there were many to choose from....

Other RV Advantages:

* low mileage means drivetrain should be reliable
* RV's are already a complete organized home on wheels
* you get to carry more stuff for the longer haul
* you could go where it's known safe... instead of 1 bug out location, you have many choices
* you have a roof over loved ones heads
* you can hide prep items more easily
* many RVs carry 700 miles of fuel on board
* they all come with water tanks and propane tanks too
* and they can pull more junk if need be
* an older RV says" I'm poorer than flash over there with his shiney new one, rob him instead :D
* you can carry backup vehicles, from motorbikes to bicycles.
* relaxing on the roof gets you above the mosquitos radar.
* the roll out awning is soon your favorite option

Disadvantages:

- gas RV's get around 6 MPG while my diesel gets 10 MPG at 80 KPH
- you have to buy insurance on another vehicle
- you have to have a place to park something this huge
- today's gas with ethonal separates quickly so fuel additives are a must...diesel RV's best but hard to find
- those with long overhang after the rear axle bottom out on even minor inclines at just gas stations. This is why mine is only 27 ft long.
- longer RV's with overhang can't pull trailers or BOV as they get more a teeter-totter affect when driving.
- you have to dip into your life's savings just to gas these pigs up. Mine holds 500 liters of fuel!
- you won't be going over or around many road obstacles with an RV
- backing up, especially with a small trailer is a test of sheer will

The biggest point I like to express upon those who bug out is having multiple backup plans. Owning an RV gives you this. You don't have to quickly opt for just what you carry on your back. If your heading for Uncle Sam's place, you brought your own home along and he likely won't tire of you so quickly. There are just too many things that we need in our daily lives to not seriously consider an RV if you must even consider bugging out an option! I live in a isolated area where most would likely head for, yet an uncontrolled forest fire means having to leave here too. We lost over a million acres of forest back in 1980 and having fought fires then is my reminder to have a backup plan even here. The RV is my first choice for a BOV and your other fallback options should break down to according to what your pulling or carrying. I listed a variety below to allow you to figure that which you could apply to your present options.

Bug Out Vehicle: Your vehicle best suited to pull a trailer, carry fuel and supplies while traversing backroads and other obstacles to get to safer grounds. Should have a class 5 hitch, roofrack, box cap and be reliable.

Camper Trailer: a self-contained home whose size is limited by bugout vehicles towing capacity. Home comforts while hauling supplies. Should also have roofrack, ladder, hitch.

Enclosed Trailer: keeps contents hidden. Extra storage with roofrack, side hooks and hitch racks. Size and capacity depends on tow vehicles limits. Can be towed by motorhome or bug-out vehicle.

Tent Trailer: a self-contained home providing essential needs while hauling supplies to a new local. Hides contents inside from prying eyes. Should have substantial roofrack to carry more. Towed by bug-out vehicle.

Storage Pod:
enclosed, lockable, mounts on roofracks. Can be transferred to trailers, etc as needs required

Dirtbike:
quiet reliable 4 stroke, 250-500 cc. Add rear rack, saddlebags, rifle mount bracket. Used for scouting resources economically. Stores in enclosed trailer.

Bicycles: mountain bike equipped with saddlebags, headlight, front and rear racks, hitch, and locks.

Bicycle Trailer: consists of a light framework with removable wheels (for easy storage) which should be interchangeable to bicycles if so required. Fasteners for storage pod even. Can be pulled by hand if you are dumb enough to even lose your bicycle :roll:
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Allegro
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Re: Vehicles

Postby Allegro » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:02 pm

Thanks Denob, thank you C5. Great insights.

I can definitely understand why a Corolla should be discussed. You can't kill them and they are amazing on gas. A dog sled is also really great idea guys. We all know the benefits of having man's best friend around and putting them to work for transportation suits my tastes just fine. Fuel storage is also a great point that C5 brings up. This is a major area of concern as we've seen in the Mad Max films. Oh! the golden age of cinema! ..... :P

Alternative fuels may also be an area of consideration in a long term plan or self-sufficient mindset. Regardless of the happenings of society, I think making my own hydrogen from water through solar electrolysis would be the most effective means of alternative fuel production. Birch oil? Fuel crops? <-------- farmers should weigh in on this one! Advances in electric vehicle technology are getting closer to matching combustion systems but more work needs to be done IMO. Electric vehicles don't require fuel so its worth noting at least. Don't take electric vehicles seriously? I point to Tesla, Honda Insight, Fisker Karma, Mission Motorcycles (very cool), Drayson Racing, and the Snowbird eSnowmobile in the defense of electric power. Look them up, you may be surprised.

Regardless of future circumstances, I hate filling up at the pump. I think we all cringe at higher and higher gas prices. Using alternatives have their place in my own future if only to keep money in my wallet for a little longer. To me, backup fuel/energy options (including the chainsaw) make for a robust plan and improve preparations in general.

Living in southern Ontario (along with many others who want to prep) brings to mind for me many more considerations when it comes to vehicles. I am currently looking for the means of leaving a major population centre, if need-be, in the event of another mass event - natural or man-made. The other side of that coin is how to move - planes, trains, automobiles - and where am I headed? I'm in the same boat as Denob - I don't currently own an ideal car right now ('04 Sentra) but I'm able to blend in with urban / suburban traffic on a daily basis. Fuel also goes a long way which is a plus. I'm a student right now so this plays to my advantage in devoting my time and money towards other preps.

Along with a new education and career will be a higher income in order to get a proper car. Most likely a Wrangler as I previously mentioned in another posting of this thread. Alternatives considered have been the Toyota 4runner, Nissan Xterra, and Honda Ridgeline. The benefits and drawbacks of each I've also weighed and so the Wrangler still comes out on top for me. The 4runner a close second place. Domestic 4x4 trucks should not be overlooked IMO. I will not wade into which one is best as there's strong opinion on this topic:)

Another consideration to discuss would be watercraft. Lakes and rivers are hard to avoid here in Ontario and most would not think to take advantage of them. These waterways may in fact become a valuable alternative route to move about the landscape. Again your feedback regarding boats, rafts, PWCs, and canoes would be great.

Please keep your ideas and opinions coming!

M

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Allegro
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Re: Vehicles

Postby Allegro » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:05 pm

I just had to post this....

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Allegro
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Re: Vehicles

Postby Allegro » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:26 pm

Great post Knuckle.

A home you can take with you makes a lot of sense. Just ask any snail or turtle:) An RV harbours many unique attributes and worth considering. Fuel is a major concern so I would personally deem an RV as a luxury item in times of plenty. My aim is to have a 'cabin in the woods' in the future where I can head to on weekends with the family to enjoy and eventually live there full time. This will give me the option of vehicles to get from here in southern Ontario to areas of the north.

The G650 GS is an amazing bike, without a doubt. The aftermarket options however for a high capacity tank leans towards the KLR650 for me if given the option of the two. Good enough for the Marine Corp, good enough for me.

M
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Re: Vehicles

Postby Knuckle » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:24 pm

thanks Allegro;

Using your dog to pull a cart is both useful and practical. I have rottweilers and they can do this all day happily. But sled dogs require a leader that they follow and dogs often have to work this out themselves...meaning they fight! Few dogs other than malamutes even wish to lead instead of follow, most wanting to heel beside their masters as Rotti's do. I'm sure a man of patience could achieve this, but the nature of the creature needs adjustment to achieve success. eg: Rotti's are cattle dogs, not guard dogs. They would usually show a thief what to steal for just a pat on the head... but with enough agitating by strangers(throwing stones and hitting him with sticks), I'm sure you could make a Rottweiler mean, but they don't come that way by nature. I always have to walk my dog before he will pull the kids around and I've attempted this with various Rotti's over the years. I have made rickshaws, chariots and wheeled dog sleds for them to pull kids around as a means to show folks Rotti's are just big and friendly dogs as I tire of folks stereotyping the breed as dangerous.

Another big selling feature for a motorcycle choice would be it's quiet ability. If you hunt with a noisey vehicle, the game is already running or hiding before you even get there. This is where my Harleys would really fail :D , after maneuverability and fuel efficiency. :lol: The BMW would likely win over most for reliability too as they are simplistic in design as old Harleys and aircraft engines are too.
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Allegro
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Re: Vehicles

Postby Allegro » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:45 pm

Hi Knuckle,

Rottweilers are one of the best family breeds I know of. I really appreciate your efforts in showing others just how great they are with kids and that putting them to work casts them in a different light. I really can't comment much on Malamutes since I don't have much experience with them. Seem like a pretty useful breed to have around though more territorial? Collies, Pointers, the Rhodesian Ridgeback, and Cane Corso (ask a Roman) all seem like useful breeds to me. Shepherds too.

I can see a dual sport bike or snowmobile in winter that is modified to run quiet as a useful tool when scouting and hunting. Hunters use ATVs all the time after all.

Thanks for all of your input Knuckle.

Allegro

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