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"Remedies" and "Therapies" A Sober Second Thought...

Discussions about Dental, Medical, Fitness and Mental Health
drwkids
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Re: "Remedies" and "Therapies" A Sober Second Thought...

Postby drwkids » Sat May 16, 2015 1:44 am

Here is what I would say as an aspiring herbalist. Measure everything on your own scale. As is in Western Medicine some things work on others well and some cause awful side effects.

For example some antibiotics I took for a nasty lung infection made me feel more sick then the original issue. Where as I started taking ginger, sage and peppermint tea. I started to clear up quickly. Then did a steam of different herbs. Did this for 3 days and I was 100%. Where as when my husband got sick, the antibiotics had no side effects, but then he was sick for over 3 weeks.

Why am I telling you thing, because as in all medicines, herbal or western there are side effects. (Some herbs and hurt you kidneys if you take too much, some act like blood thinners ect ect.) You need to trust in the research/person prescribing the meds. And you need to fully understand the long term side effects. The reason why more and more people are trusting herbal medicine is because they have been tested for 100's of years. Unlike most of our medical testing today which at most is a 10 year run.
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thecrownsown
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Re: "Remedies" and "Therapies" A Sober Second Thought...

Postby thecrownsown » Tue May 19, 2015 4:45 pm

drwkids wrote:Here is what I would say as an aspiring herbalist. Measure everything on your own scale. As is in Western Medicine some things work on others well and some cause awful side effects.

For example some antibiotics I took for a nasty lung infection made me feel more sick then the original issue. Where as I started taking ginger, sage and peppermint tea. I started to clear up quickly. Then did a steam of different herbs. Did this for 3 days and I was 100%. Where as when my husband got sick, the antibiotics had no side effects, but then he was sick for over 3 weeks.

Why am I telling you thing, because as in all medicines, herbal or western there are side effects. (Some herbs and hurt you kidneys if you take too much, some act like blood thinners ect ect.) You need to trust in the research/person prescribing the meds. And you need to fully understand the long term side effects. The reason why more and more people are trusting herbal medicine is because they have been tested for 100's of years. Unlike most of our medical testing today which at most is a 10 year run.


Hey dr! :)

I get where your coming from. And to be honest an inquisitive mind and that zest to search is to be commended. But there are some fundamental issues at hand that need to be clarified...

-Measuring everything on your own scale...that is highly subjective and not the right approach. The whole point of using the scientific model is to show what something does. Whether it comes from "nature" or manufactured in a plant isnt the issue. Your story about you and the husband lacked using controls, a large study group, etc. Saying "it worked for me" doesn't mean it did or it didn't...it could be correlation, or coincidence, it could be any number of variables which perhaps have been thought of or not. And it could also very well mean it worked too! But anecdotal evidence is simply that. Anecdotal. Your are correct that many pharmaceuticals have side effects. Many herbs do also. In modern science and medicine...there is no "us" vs. "them." In fact an abundance of pharmaceuticals are based off of what has been found in nature. Many pharmaceuticals work better than there natural counterparts and many don't.
So please understand its not challenging the herbs that are out there that have medicinal uses...its what is proven compared to what is not and just rumour, or old wives tales... (I'm not calling you old btw! ;) ) I've heard everything from "i switched my toothbrush and I got over my cold right away" to "I used this special elixer on my scalp with onion juice and my hair started to grow back!" It was simply anecdotal evidence leading to a false conclusion... It doesn't necessarily mean your wrong..but making conclusions based on incomplete information and evidence is dangerous.

-Your absolutely right about understanding the side effects of anything you put into your body. That is the physicians obligation to explain the pros and cons to you and answer any questions you have. Your body, your decision.

-Your absolutely wrong about more and more people trusting herbal medicines for the reason you stated. Its comments like "used for 100's of years" that psuedo science relies on to justify something. That doesn't prove it works at all..its just a catchy line and advertisement. Tacking on that modern medicines have only been tested for "decades" doesn't prove or disprove they work either. Your taking a timeline and making a conclusion on the validity of something relative each of them. Again, I have to say that its not an "us vs. them" with respect to proven treatments.

I ponder whether the amount of pseudo science, false information, etc. would die out on the internet, and in the general public if the people who preached it were held accountable...be it criminally or in some civil manner....from anti vaxxers, to spiritual healers, etc. Not saying anything you said merits this dr....just concerned about where I've seen herbalism go from its legitimate body of knowledge into therapies and remedies which are insane.

See if you can get your hands on a copy of the Physicians Desk Reference for Nonprescription Drugs, Daily Supplements and Herbs. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised at the body of information out there and how a lot of what your learning is probably founded in the general body of science.
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helicopilot
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Re: "Remedies" and "Therapies" A Sober Second Thought...

Postby helicopilot » Wed May 20, 2015 1:26 am

Well said TCO.
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drwkids
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Re: "Remedies" and "Therapies" A Sober Second Thought...

Postby drwkids » Fri May 22, 2015 12:40 am

The one thing I advocate with western or other medicines is to be informed fully of what you are taking, why you are taking it, and what it will do to you short and long term. The fact is when you take something that has been processed to the extreme you don't really know what your taking. There have been so many new meds that have the warning... your doctor has deemed this medicine to be in your best interest, knowing the side effects. And then a list of often scary side effects.

Am I anti western meds.... not at all. But I am for fully knowing what goes into your body and what it will do. For example small pox vaccination - genius, HPV vaccination that was rushed through and never went to long term human trails, causing cancer in 30% not so great. As a society we run to pills/modern medicine before fixing a problem which can often be done with small changes in ones diet. Doctors are not trained anything past basic nutrition, triage, specializations and prescriptions. But do I want a vodoo lady doing a c section on me, no thank you. Its a balance.

I would't say that herbal supplements / remedies are a psudeo science. As I said to start I am an aspiring herbalist. Meaning no formal training, but my own research / family knowledge past down. There are a measured approach. A+B=C but this is a skill that needs to be trained, consistently being updated, and there are no nos, don;t mix X+Y ect. This is where medicine started. My first herbal medicine book was actually Drugs and Medicines of North America, from 1887 (I looked up the original print date). Its where I learned about clove oil, dandelion tea, and poultice's. Doctors left these options sometimes because new technologies came out. Sterile bandages over poultice, fillings for teeth, instead of oil of oregano / pull the tooth ect. Other times they left them because of drug companies and their influence.

Last thing I would say. There is a big difference between using herbal treatments to assist your health, in SHTF situations, or even boost your immune systems and eating 10000 bananas to get rid of cancer. There will always be snake oil sales man. I am not advocating we all go eat ACIA berries to loose weight because its "natural". I am advocating using echinacea when you have a chest cold to boost your immune system and help you get over it faster, using oregano on a tooth abscess instead of antibiotics, and dandelion tea for stomach flu.
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Re: "Remedies" and "Therapies" A Sober Second Thought...

Postby helicopilot » Fri May 22, 2015 2:45 am

Putting all "big pharma" conspiracy theories behind, I will continue to advocate stocking up on medicine (prescribed or OTC) in the event of an crisis - whether short or long term.

A significant amount of today's medicine comes from old fashion medication that has been processed for ease of distribution (moulds = penicillin pills, willow bark = aspirin pills, etc).

Having said that, owning a book or two on herbal medicine may become handy if we ever experience a TEOTWAWKI event. Does anyone have a copy to recommend? Ideally, I would like to put my hand on something 100+ year old (drwkids seems to have something) and a recent one. That way we can compare between the two as science has evolved. I'm not looking for something new age looking book...
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drwkids
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Re: "Remedies" and "Therapies" A Sober Second Thought...

Postby drwkids » Sat May 23, 2015 1:47 am

There are a few good ones, it really depends on what you are looking for.
For daily life and how to make pretty much everything I like The Herbal Medicine-Maker's Handbook: A Home Manual by James Green. Its got a hippy feel to the book, but the information and how to's are two notch.
There are eight million encyclopedia type books about how to identify different herbs and edible plants. I have read so many. But you need to know what to do with them once you find them. Which is why I like the first book. There are some good old school scout ones that will serve your purpose.
My most recent read was Grow your own drugs by James Wong. It was good. Very anti western but lots of info.
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Re: "Remedies" and "Therapies" A Sober Second Thought...

Postby thecrownsown » Mon May 25, 2015 1:46 pm

drwkids wrote:My most recent read was Grow your own drugs by James Wong. It was good. Very anti western but lots of info.


Curious why you use the term "western" in your posts? So far as I know, proven medicine is global and does not differentiate between geographic regions. The truth is the truth no matter what the source. Last I checked places like China, India and Pakistan have been world leaders in medicine and long since thrown off the shackles of superstition, unproven techniques and remedies.
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Re: "Remedies" and "Therapies" A Sober Second Thought...

Postby thecrownsown » Mon May 25, 2015 2:12 pm

"Food Faiths & Diet Religions"

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1941393063/ref ... pticcom-20 By Alan Levinovitz.

The author takes on everything from the most recent fads such as Gluten free, and coconut water to the religious aspect of the "in groups" who eat "pure" as opposed to "others." :)


A review of the book by Harriet Hall:
http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/15-05-20/#feature

"“The unpleasant reality is that we don’t know what constitutes an ‘ideal’ diet, and there may be no such thing.” Eating in moderation has always been the common sense mainstay of diet advice, and science has added nothing that stands up to rigorous scrutiny. Levinovitz advocates removing the fear and restoring the pleasure in eating. “Fiction, not food, is the real demon.” With healthy helpings of history and skepticism, we can learn to laugh at fads and eat our dinner in peace.
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helicopilot
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Re: "Remedies" and "Therapies" A Sober Second Thought...

Postby helicopilot » Mon May 25, 2015 2:38 pm

TCO, Drwkids,

I admit I could/should be doing more of my research on this, but I'm looking for an informative book that avoids all biases of religions, cultures and beliefs. I'm not seeking for diet books, but rather a book that has enough scientific background to substantiate its existence and purpose. The book would offer a clear solution to common ailment, such as: " for minor pains requiring relief, take a handful of birch bark and make a fine powder crushing it, mix with...." While also adding pictures of the herbs and plants for identification. A huge bonus would be growing instructions for a medicinal herb garden.
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Re: "Remedies" and "Therapies" A Sober Second Thought...

Postby thecrownsown » Sun May 31, 2015 2:53 am

helicopilot wrote:TCO, Drwkids,

I admit I could/should be doing more of my research on this, but I'm looking for an informative book that avoids all biases of religions, cultures and beliefs. I'm not seeking for diet books, but rather a book that has enough scientific background to substantiate its existence and purpose. The book would offer a clear solution to common ailment, such as: " for minor pains requiring relief, take a handful of birch bark and make a fine powder crushing it, mix with...." While also adding pictures of the herbs and plants for identification. A huge bonus would be growing instructions for a medicinal herb garden.


The Physicians Desk Reference would be your best bet so far as I know.

It contains information proven scientifically.
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