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Lead Carbon Batteries

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Danux
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Lead Carbon Batteries

Postby Danux » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:47 pm

Anyone researched lead-carbon batteries? I just stumbled on to this chemistry recently, they are claiming similar amps in/out, and longevity, to lithium chemistries, but at less than half the cost. They are considerably heavier, so not popular with, say, vehicle manufacturers, but in a permanent home bank, who cares about weight?

Here's one example:

http://en.naradapower.com/index.php/products/info/14?ctype=46


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peppercorn
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries

Postby peppercorn » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:25 am

Have not used them. It looks like most manufacturers now manufacture a line of them, a lot of advertising wank, and claims being made, I have looked at the specs,and do see a advantage over lead acid in stationary aplications where infrequent charging, or not full charging is typical ( key word.. typical) but that's not a homes battery bank typical condition, or I should say not for Alberta or Saskatchewan just no excuse for not having enough panels in these two provinces.
Also that advantage under deficit charging conditions comes with a price.
I see its use more in industrial application, telcom, remote oil lease sites . It will work of course for home application, but I myself will be sticking with simple flooded lead acid, though I am impressed with LiFePo4 composition and the price is falling, I do believe that's going to be more cost effective than lead acid long term (over 20 years)...it may be now I haven't checked prices lately. Even if it is I will still be sticking with lead acid for my main bank, but I likely will add a second small back up bank of LifeP04 in about 2 to 3 years from now, and use this back up bank in place of a generator(or to cut down the use of) for the winter months of Dec and January.
Wallet capacity, and what you use, amphr wise is also a determinant factor in battery selection.
Just wondering what is your daily amphr needs?
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Danux
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries

Postby Danux » Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:27 pm

I do not yet have to buy, still have a few years, so I also am waiting to see how the chemistries evolve - I have time to research, and I figure there is going to be something excellent, with the push to electrify personal vehicles.

LifePO4 looks good, Tesla's new 2070 cell is getting a lot positive press (80% capacity after ten years complete daily cycling). If the bank account swells enough, NiFe has the longevity I seek, but lacks the charging capacity (unless I go huge). I looked at the price of a Powerwall not long ago, looked like the best deal, based against time, but an acquaintance of mine tried to get one, they coudn't be bothered to respond to his inquiries -shrug-, not sure I can count on them to supply some to me.

As for storage capacity/AH needs, I'm designing for minimal personal consumption, but again, if finances allow, I'll get as much storage capacity as possible. One of my main reasons for a large bank is the ability to take a hard charge. Until I found PbC batteries, a moderately-sized 48V LifePO4 was the only thing capable of taking all of my potential generating capacity (7.3kW). I'm thinking there will be times when I may have one good winter day of sunshine separated by long stretches of cloud, so want to capitalize on it.

I guess my priorities are longevity, (dis)charge capacity, then storage capacity. I'd probably mostly just skim the top in summer, but really, my tendency is to consume everything I make LOL, so I'm sure I'd find other uses for any excess. My bigger concern is winter, fewer & shorter sunny days, greater need for power. I could probably make do with a lead acid bank, but I really really really want something that is going to last. PbC kinda looks like the right compromise between lead-acid and LifePO4.

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peppercorn
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries

Postby peppercorn » Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:31 am

Danux wrote: I'm thinking there will be times when I may have one good winter day of sunshine separated by long stretches of cloud, so want to capitalize on it.

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Yes you can be certain of it. The technical name for that long stretch of cloud is called "December"

This array at nait has been up since 2012...I keep my eye on it and it roughly matches what I see south of that location.
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/pv/ ... 9/overview

If you go to the calendar at the bottom left and click it it will show you production by day, months and years back on a day by day basis.
From memory I think each array (left and right) is 1500 watts so 3000 total.
You can absolutely beat their production numbers in the real world ( as you would not use angles of 14,18, and 27 (if you care about production), also the right side isn't swept clear of snow in the winter) so consider these numbers to be poor under winter conditions, a real 3000 watt array fixed at 60 degrees or better would beat their numbers but they use this array for gathering data on production at different angles even if they are not the best for our northern location.

This site has a better break down on production by side ( swept/unswept) and by individual panels, Though the data is poorly laid out IMO...
https://data.edmonton.ca/Environmental- ... -sqyw/data
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries

Postby peppercorn » Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:29 am

Just checked and my memory was wrong its 1380 per side for 2760 watt total.
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Danux
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries

Postby Danux » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:21 pm

Good data, it'll take a bit to wrap my head around the presentation. I've been trying to rationalize 2D trackers, but I think I will overgenerate with my panels at fixed angles, as it is LOL.

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Danux
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Re: Lead Carbon Batteries

Postby Danux » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:45 pm

Man, there are some pretty lean days (City data) around winter solstice LOL. OTOH, that is a poorly optimized panel placement, if one were positioning for maximum power. It looks like the NAIT data is per-panel, which would yield some interesting numbers, but like you suggest, the data is not displayed for general consumption.

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