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Offence & Defence

Discussions about Security and Defense
Wayne
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Re: Offence & Defence

Postby Wayne » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:38 pm

thecrownsown wrote:This was an enjoyable read! :) I need to spend more time on this forum catching up on stuff.

Don't believe everything you see on line.... Youtube..google..are not synonymous with research. I mean...we all know its the lizard people who infiltrated the Whitehouse...and are conspiring with Col Sanders (no..he's not dead.) and the Queen to take over Iceland... educate yourself...


LOL.. the lizard people...
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Clarence
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Re: Offence & Defence

Postby Clarence » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:57 am

Water, heat, shelter,food, medicine, comms, power, light, weapons, wire, paracord.. for food, perimeter security and self defence.

Ammo? 22 for sure. It’s light weight, will get you a squirrel, turkey, duck,deer, bear or moose and it’s not loud. then whatever rifle/ammo that work for you and that you can hump or store away. 22 will also work for self defence. Learn how and when to shoot and you will beat some city wannabe gangster blazing wildly away and not hitting anything.
Not my first choice, but....
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Wayne
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Re: Offence & Defence

Postby Wayne » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:45 am

Clarence wrote: ...Ammo? 22 for sure. It’s light weight, will get you a squirrel, turkey, duck,deer, bear or moose and it’s not loud...


Clarence, the .22 is suitable for small animals not averaging more than about 10 pounds in body weight. It's not recommended that anyone shoot a Deer, Bear or Moose with a .22. For that matter, you shouldn't shoot anything you want to eat without first learning how to skin and prepare it.

Bear and Moose should be considered dangerous game at closer ranges. In my mind they are CXP2 or CXP3. Shooting one with an underpowered caliber is just going to piss them off. We want to survive, not be killed by a charging Moose..:-)

For game to matching calibers see: http://chuckhawks.com/gun_game.htm
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Clarence
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Re: Offence & Defence

Postby Clarence » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:48 am

Wayne, due not wish to offend etc, but poachers use 22, and I know natives and guides who use them. I fully agree that the average person shouldn’t use them for big game. However, if one is truly serious about prepping in all or many of its forms, then marksmanship, tracking covert type/ not making more noise than necessary and patience is a good to essential skillet that should to must be acquired. We both know that brain shots are lethal and hitting a tooney at fifty or one hundred feet is with practice and an off the shelf rifle achievable. So eye shot is doable. Would I prefer a 5.56, 30-06.... yes, but if out in a survival situation looking for a rabbit, turkey, partridge... and I had a shot at a deer in my Bush, I would likely be very confident in taking the head shot. Survival only situation of course and not having another weapon. I hunt on normal day with 5.56, 30-06 or 30-30 and in a let’s go bag a deer in survival situation, I would, in my current Bush environment, likely use a 5.56 or 30-30.

So practice and other skill sets are essential. I know what I can and can’t do and adjust accordingly. Your a good shot and I am sure you could make a lethal shot with a 22 if the right conditions were in play. Just a matter of average person practising until they get to decent level so they could at least try for a deer if they found themselves only with a 22 and had a decent chance of success presented itself.
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Wayne
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Re: Offence & Defence

Postby Wayne » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:59 pm

Clarence wrote: ...However, if one is truly serious about prepping in all or many of its forms, then marksmanship, tracking covert type/ not making more noise than necessary and patience is a good to essential skillet that should to must be acquired...


Clarence, I certainly don't wish to offend you either. Yes, I'm confident that I could make a kill shot on a black bear (for example) with a .22 if it was less than 100M and the conditions were ideal. If it was a Grizzly, I'd quietly back away. Marksmanship is important, but it's insufficient in-itself.

Knowledge of the specific animal's anatomy is required. For example in this case, I would target the heart. I would wait until the near side front foot was forward before I took the shot. If the near side leg was backward, the heart would be protected by the shoulder bone which moves as the bear walks. This shot could be taken with the proper centre-fire caliber regardless of leg position, but the .22 doesn't have the power to break the shoulder and carry through to penetrate the heart. An eye shot wouldn't work because of the thickness of the skull and the position of the brain.

If in doubt, I would refrain from taking the shot. However it seemed to me, that in reading your post you were referring to all readers in a matter-of-fact manner and not directing the post to those who were accomplished snipers or hunters. This is the only reason why I commented.

I agree that marksmanship is something that should be improved upon by all shooters. The reality of the situation is often beyond the control of the average shooter. Barrel temperature, ammunition used, wind, elevation, humidity, angle of shot, etc. affect where the bullet hits. The chances of coming into the effective range of a .22 and targeting a Moose (for example) undetected are extremely remote.

If one is truly serious about prepping and decides to buy a rifle, they should be equally serious about using the correct caliber for the job they wish to perform. It's reasonable for the Prepper to understand the limitations of his equipment and the dangers of using it in a manner for which it wasn't designed before they attempt to push the operational envelope.
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