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Going cold.

Discussions about Security and Defense
MarlPrepper
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Location: New Zealand

Going cold.

Postby MarlPrepper » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:05 pm

this is a subject i cannot ignore and want to know more about before i even get a gun.
going cold is a big one. yeah you may be able to camouflage stab someone or hit a target but the aftermath is the problem.
you will relive that moment every day of your life if you do not do it fairly or go cold first.
i dont know how to go cold and forget about stuff so im just asking for help because if i were to get into a gunfight with someone, even if i won afterwards i would probably kill myself i would be so ashamed.
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Cares
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Re: Going cold.

Postby Cares » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:20 pm

From what I understand (in or outside of a war situation) it is quite normal for a person to be physically sick the first time they are forced to kill another person. So I don't think your feelings are unique at all, it is not something I would wish to do and I hope the need never arises.
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FNQ'er-1
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Location: North Qld - in the Land Down Under.

Re: Going cold.

Postby FNQ'er-1 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:44 pm

Difficult one to answer - You are not talking about the 'now,' as we all know, it's wrong to take life. I hunted for years and never killed animals for the fun off it, always used what I shot or
trapped or caught, unless I did it as a pest control issue. Yes - your right any normal person should not be able to kill in cold blood under any current normal situation. We should not loose our humanity or compassion for others - however - here I am talking of the current world standards and NO major issues that change the world as we know it today.

However - with a SHTF scenario - the rules of engagement are different, morality changes and it is usually the Law Of The Jungle - the strong survive - there are hunters and then the hunted. Or you learn to become invisible - that is not that impossible as it sounds, as the majority of the surveillance equipment will no longer be functional.

Or you gather in numbers with the herd mentality - but there is usually a stronger herd just around the next bend.
The Human instinct is to survive - that is implanted in our DNA - under sever conditions and time of stress people resort to any forms to do so no matter how much they repel you now, here is an example; From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - 1972 Andes flight disaster
"Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571, also known as the Andes flight disaster, and in South America as Miracle in the Andes (El Milagro de los Andes) was a chartered flight carrying 45 people, including a rugby team, their friends, family and associates that crashed in the Andes on October 13, 1972. More than a quarter of the passengers died in the crash, and several others quickly succumbed to cold and injury. Of the 29 who were alive a few days after the accident, another eight were killed by an avalanche that swept over their shelter in the wreckage. The last 16 survivors were rescued on December 23, 1972, more than two months after the crash.

The survivors had little food and no source of heat in the harsh conditions at over 3,600 metres (11,800 ft) altitude. Faced with starvation and radio news reports that the search for them had been abandoned, the survivors fed on the dead passengers who had been preserved in the snow. Rescuers did not learn of the survivors until 72 days after the crash. "

These people 'Did what they had to do, to survive'. Your also talking about a TOTAL BREAKDOWN OF SOCIETY AS WE KNOW IT!!!
Well - this is how I perceive it to be a possibility. Hopefully we are preparing for nothing.
I could see how this can be a sensitive issue for some people to face - but this is a possible future reality and it won't help by sticking your head in the sand hoping it will go away.

I recomend you track down a book titled 'Lord of the Flies' it was an interesting read years ago and showed some school kids marooned and there decline into a primitive tribal society.
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JustABear
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Re: Going cold.

Postby JustABear » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:05 am

Taking a life should only be a last resort. Never for "fun". Never for the machismo. Never to be celebrated. Regardless of the scenario I believe that in most cases it will be live and let live. Those who choose violence will prevale in occasional circumstance but only in the short term. Every time you are in a position to take a life... you are also in a position to lose your own.... just a few thoughts.
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Glockman1
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Re: Going cold.

Postby Glockman1 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:30 am

It is true, this should not be taken lightly. "Going cold" as you call it, is all mental conditioning. For example, you are not trying to kill someone but are trying to prevent them from killing you. If you shoot at a range, practice with silhouette type targets. Drill on it until it being muscle memory as oppose to a conscious action. These are the methods that the military uses to train troops. You must learn to focus on the fact that you are defending the group.
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JustABear
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Re: Going cold.

Postby JustABear » Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:39 am

"Going cold" is mental conditioning. It is the ability to separate actions and emotions. Many people work in careers that expose them to sights, situations and events that cause traumatic stress. Police, EMS, Nurses, Soldiers are all in this catagory. The things they see... and do.... are in many ways beyond the comprehension of the average person. Most manage to deal with the emotional aftermath by seeing that what they do is for the greater good. Some see it as defending something.. themselves, a friend, an ideal. Many develop "boxes"... the ability to remove or at least greatly reduce the memory of events. If you go hand to hand with someone then yes, you are defending yourself. When you kill someone who is 200... 300 or more meters away who doesn't even know you are there it becomes different. It is no longer personal.. but it becomes MORE personal. It isn't a video game. These aren't characters. They would be flesh and blood people who are doing nothing more than you are... trying to survive. Our society has social, religious and legal taboos on taking a life. The military brainwashes troops to over ride these by rewiring the brain circuits of new recruits. It is all psychology and conditioning in which you shed your civilian persona and aquire the military one. This is a mindset where your unit... your platoon, section.. are your family. When you go into action you ultimately fight for your buddies first. You defend them.. and they defend you. In the end it is more important to you what they think of you than anyone at home. You will stand with them, fight and if necessary die rather than have them think less of you. This is the military. As a civilian you have no such brainwashing or conditioning. You have no such attachments or loyalty other than to your family. No group, no band, no friends will prepare you to "deal" with the effects of taking a life. Some will cope for a short time. Some for a lifetime. You are a product of your life and experiences. That and that alone will decide how and IF you can cope. I guess what I am saying is simply that there is no way to train yourself for this. If you are in the unfortunate position of having to ever take a life.... that is when you will know what your reaction will be.

JAB
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farmgal
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Re: Going cold.

Postby farmgal » Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:17 pm

So let me be very clear here, I am not recommending this!

However as a young child, I started hunting at a young age, (around age eight) and the winter I was nine, I was out rabbit hunting with dad and older brother and I shot a rabbit, it was down but not out, and I was more then willing to put another bullet to finish it but my dad, said, no, finish by hand, I broke down and could not do it, it was a verbal battle and my father finally finished off the rabbit, while I was a crying mess..

My dad explained to me that at the moment of the kill, at the moment of the pull of the trigger that, you needed to "still" and find that space that allows you to do it, he said, afterward, I could shake, cry or throw up if I need to do so while learning but during, I needed to be calm and steady..

He then drove down the road slowly until he found and shot a rabbit and told me to go deal with it.. needless to say, I did but wow was I mad, I didn't go hunting with again for a full year after my mom and him had a royal amount of words on age/children, training and teaching.

Having said that, the next year, when it came time to butcher, my mother in a nicer way, talked me though pretty much the same thing in regards to shutting it off and getting it done..

The first time my hubby was with me during a home butcher on the farm, he was freaked out at that "Still space" I got into, he still does not like it, but after this many years on the farm, he has his own controlled spot now as well..

Its should never be easy but JAB said it perfectly for me.. his way of saying Box's is a good point, I am aware that taking a person life is different then a animal's but there is common ground as well.
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Maple Leaf Pilgrim
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Re: Going cold.

Postby Maple Leaf Pilgrim » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:20 pm

MarlPrepper wrote:this is a subject i cannot ignore and want to know more about before i even get a gun.
going cold is a big one. yeah you may be able to camouflage stab someone or hit a target but the aftermath is the problem.
you will relive that moment every day of your life if you do not do it fairly or go cold first.
i dont know how to go cold and forget about stuff so im just asking for help because if i were to get into a gunfight with someone, even if i won afterwards i would probably kill myself i would be so ashamed.


Taking a human life is not easy, whether you do it as a murderer, killing in the line of duty or preserving your life.

I'm not going to get much into details here, but check out "On Killing" by Lt. Col. David Grossman. It's just one of his books that helped me understand a lot of things going on in my head after the fact.

-S.
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carbon04
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Re: Going cold.

Postby carbon04 » Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:59 am

Maple Leaf Pilgrim wrote:
MarlPrepper wrote:this is a subject i cannot ignore and want to know more about before i even get a gun.
going cold is a big one. yeah you may be able to camouflage stab someone or hit a target but the aftermath is the problem.
you will relive that moment every day of your life if you do not do it fairly or go cold first.
i dont know how to go cold and forget about stuff so im just asking for help because if i were to get into a gunfight with someone, even if i won afterwards i would probably kill myself i would be so ashamed.


Taking a human life is not easy, whether you do it as a murderer, killing in the line of duty or preserving your life.

I'm not going to get much into details here, but check out "On Killing" by Lt. Col. David Grossman. It's just one of his books that helped me understand a lot of things going on in my head after the fact.

-S.


Grossman nails it on the head. Good book that will clear your mind.
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Singlecell
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Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:30 pm
Location: Toronto

Re: Going cold.

Postby Singlecell » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:02 pm

Just to be clear, is this about finishing someone off, without a gun?

Farmgal, I knew you were rural, but damn that is an intense story. When I talk about hunting to my family they accuse me of being a coward, like I need to feel like a big man or something, but I've never even really been like that. They just despise the thought of it.

Pretty sure I'd be practically dead to them if I ever got a rifle, haha.
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