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Re: Do you plan to be a lonewolf or part of a like minded band?

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:26 am
by peppercorn
term0shad wrote:Don't even know where to begin here. But hopefully the basic point gets across. Yes had a few adult pops lol. But I personally see this issue over and over with white people. Don't get me wrong at pointing at white people. I'm white myself. See I have a wide circle fro all cultures. I see how they are. Some cultures work more to get a head. Where I see white people do it alone. We have a issue on trusting others maybe or it might be how we are taught. Not sure and still trying to figure it out. But my point is on mainly this (LONE WOLF) shit. I'm ex military and some times I really look at shit from some fucked up angles. Yes live combat I have seen in a few places around the world. But from all the people I personally know that are none white seem to stick together threw allot of shit. They work together to get a head. Don't get me wrong they have ups and downs. I have personally work for none white. They try and nickle and dime you as much as they can. But they also are smart as fuck. They don't do it alone. They will have like 10 people live in one house. They pay off one house and oldest one get that then they move to a new house till its payed off. Ever one pays till ever one gets a house. Most keep going even in business and so on. Just makes me think why us white people don't do that. At least from my experience. Don't get me wrong my kids are set for life they both have a place that's payed off and they 19 and 18. But I see it everywhere with white people. Even some of the mag group projects I have done. Instead of working as a unit they only mainly worry about there self's. When I was in the military we as a unit always understood that we are only as strong as are weakest link. So we would make that link as strong as we could. Because that made us stronger as a unit. I still chat with everyone left in my old unit and people I have trained all over the world. But I still shake my head on lone wolf thinking. Only real way to get ahead and survive is as a team. But agree you have to pick the right people to get there. Any way that's my rant. I know I don't post much but I do try and read everything weekly if possible. Lots of good information on this site.

In the interest of always trying to learn more about the human condition, I have been watching university courses on psychology and human biology, I just so happened to have seen one on the topic you mention, not relating to skin pigment as the cause, but rather culture...I will go and see if I can find it for you

Re: Do you plan to be a lonewolf or part of a like minded band?

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:34 am
by peppercorn
Cant really find the one I am thinking of, though if you watch the entire series from this guy, 20 some parts, you will get a better understanding of cooperation or the lack of. A lot to watch but well worth it. Try this one, start at 1hr and 19 minutes in to get a taste of it.

Re: Do you plan to be a lonewolf or part of a like minded band?

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:38 pm
by Clarence
jonesy wrote:[quote="Clarence]

Yes, LARPers


Kind of like the types who do civil war reenactments, medieval mock battles, and think/debate on which character in "The Walking Dead" they are.
AKA Mall ninjas, wannabes, etc. Generally use it as an escape from the drudgery of everyday life, or personal issues.

I have met many types, from one end of the spectrum to the other. ie One who was afraid to get a 10/22 for hunting because of what his family thought of guns, to one who had dozens of guns and had never been to the range, let alone disassembled and serviced what they have.

I have seen ones who talk about how they revel in the thought of supply chain interruptions, yet haven't thought of how they will deal with their addictions to pain killers, booze, smokes, etc after 30 days without.

These same people have yet to take a First aid course, store more than a dozen cans of beans, or done much other than chat online.

I talk about minimal input farming, backup power supplies, water storage and procurement, food forests, and using plants to deter burglars, and I get confused looks.

Yes, LARPers I have met plenty of. Honest to goodness preparedness-minded, focused, and legit contributors to a MAG I have met few of, especially locally. For now, it's my family, and maybe a guy or two. Desperately in need of more. I have 5 acres (Backing onto millions of empty ones behind me.) to cache stuff on, and so far have yet to see someone local even think of it.[/quote][/quote]

Thanks jonesy.
Truth is, very, very few people could even start a fire on a sunny day in July with a match and a dry newspaper, let alone during a freezing rain event in January at midnight. TV and movies make survival look so easy and heck, it only lasts for an hour and that’s with commercial breaks :ugeek:

People also want to be part of something and can’t admit they are clueless. I was chatting with a childhood friend of mine and he sort of knows about my life. He was trying to tell me he had food for six months. But he lives in burbs near Toronto. Has a wood fireplace but maybe a cord of wood, no solar system... so after a day, his freezer with his meats will be of little value... he has three children who live nearby and they have boyfriends. I asked him, what about them? Your supposed 6 months of food (bs) will now last how long with 8 mouths to feed! He’s in sales, so has practiced the art of a poker face, but it was obvious, I had called his hand.

Strong man and jogs, so could walk for some time and he does have camping gear, but in Toronto area, he would have a good long walk to any area he could even begin to call bush. Not sure what he would do with his kids and their friends boyfriends! Not exactly a weekend trip to provincial park.

Nope, many weekend campers or larpers, think they will be just fine but we all know they, while lasting maybe a few weeks longer then others, will still be up snot creek without a paddle.

My same friend has started hunting with me but is to cheap to spend the money on ammo and practice on the range/ my land. Give a man a gun and in his mind, he is an Instant John Wayne or a trained military killer. Again, movies and male genetics in play. One good thing is, we will likely have access to lots of guns when we raid a house where occupants are all deceased, just hope we have the ammo that fits with all the nice new guns that never really got used :lol: I should recommend he leave his rifles here, that way I can get ammo for them and make use of myself.

Would I want my best and longest friend to be part of my group? He has muscle power and can wield an axe or saw but boy, there would be some serious ego adjustments that would need to occur. Admitably, mine and his. Beyond his and his wife’s physical strength and extra hands or eyes, they would bring little else. No ammo, food... maybe after a few weeks it would be ok, but BS and bravado don’t last long in dangerous times. I think it would work but not as easy as many think.

Re: Do you plan to be a lonewolf or part of a like minded band?

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:45 pm
by Clarence
term0shad wrote:I thought I would try to put this in perspective for people that think they can do it alone aka (lone wolf) or maybe with just family. First of we will start with firewood. Now if shtf odds are fuel will be far from few. So now it comes to manual labor. Axe let for just the hell of it cut down trees and split it. Remember average is 5 cords to get threw a winter. That 4x4x8 ft per cord. That doesn't even cover gardening on top of that. Plus hunting for meat. My son said to me that's not a issue. He young and strong and just turn 18 as of today. So for a life lesson I said to him I guess your smarter then me or maybe stronger. So go cut 5 cords by axe last summer. He started in April by August he had almost 6 cords cut for winter. But you have to remember also you need wood to cook with and heat water with all summer too. I estimate he did 10 cords in total. But that's all he did ever day all by himself. At the end of it he said he would never ever do it by hand like that again. Now we are talking about a 6ft 2 inches boy in his prime. He has worked with me off and on all his life in construction building houses from ground up and helped out in basement and garages to get ready for concert. Now we do everything manually. No cranes or zoom boom. All done by man power. Pulling trusses up 2 stores by rope. Yes it's long post but had to try and give you a picture of how hard it is with out a chainsaw for wood. Fucker can pick a fridge up and haul it by himself and put it in the back of a truck with out breaking a sweat. Not a tiny boy or weak. Now I'm not saying a big ass mag group to join. But I hope you all have at least have a group of people to help each other out if shtf. I'm blessed with a son that can out do me now and most people I personally know. Plus he is always willing to come help. Remember I live off grid with my gi now for 3 or 4 yrs now. You loose track of time and even what month or day it is sometimes. When your busy from 8 am to 8 PM every day. I do try and take weekends off. But normally that's when I go help my mother and step dad out. Around there place. She has fucked lungs and on oxygen 24/7 and he just lost both his legs 8 months ago. Do to infection he put off till it was to bad. Just something for you people to think about. New yr I'm looking at possible doing a bug out project where who invested in it has a spot and also owns there spot. Just started looking into it with a lawyer and shopping around for a piece of property a hr south of Edmonton. But we will see on this project. Getting up there in age. Plus now have helped set up 4 mag locations. With others. Now it's time to find a permanent spot to retire. Yes I have a spot at all spots I helped do. But 2.5 hrs drive to work one way is getting old.
Well your one busy son of a gun! Yep, cutting wood by hand is a ton of work, exposes one to broken bones, cuts, weakens you AND requires lots of food to keep that internal engine we call our body working! Calorie intake will go up, way up!

Good network is handy and I am going to be delicately probing for such folks this winter.

Re: Do you plan to be a lonewolf or part of a like minded band?

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:31 pm
by Wayne
term0shad wrote:I thought I would try to put this in perspective for people that think they can do it alone aka (lone wolf) or maybe with just family...
I suppose it really depends on the family. In addition to my abilities I have three hyper-fit sons (ironman/ marathon participants/fitness trainers) all ex or current military (ages 30-33, 6'1" to 6'3"), two are police officers (one civilian, one military). So I'm not so much worried about wood getting chopped. If further help was required, I'd tap into police and military friends who've served with us and can be trusted. These include ex-combat veterans and current and past members of police tactical teams, but family resources should be enough.

Spouses include an emergency physician and a fitness instructor. My wife is completely capable and is more mentally tough that most men I've met. Grand children include two girls (one and five) and two boys (nine and thirteen). My wife's a teacher.

There are however some shortcomings of skills that I'd have to address. So trading of skillsets (medical/security/survival/carpentry skills) for extra produce, etc. would likely be required in the long term. Cooperative efforts with others outside of the group would always be welcome.

I don't however see the need for inviting others who are unknown elements into the group. Experience has taught me that this isn't likely to be successful...

Re: Do you plan to be a lonewolf or part of a like minded band?

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:36 pm
by Clarence
I believe Wayne mentioned being a member of a commune. With exception of one fraternal group, I have never been a group type person and definitely a lone wolf. BUT, can work with those who know what they are doing and where we all know our limits or capabilities and keep our nose/opinions out of things we are out of our league on. In recent profession, one of the things i did was run a team of technicians. Each had a skill set and over the course of twenty years, we each grew closer and never once would we step into the other persons world. we would look at a problem and brainstorm but when it became obvious that the issue was better left with Sam, we shut up and let him lead. it worked perfectly and i would have to say, i never witnessed a more capable technical team in my life. I have a hell of an ego, but i know my weaknesses and defer to others until such time as i think i know better.

My best friend who i mentioned below, will be harder to get along with then most of my other professional friends or acquaintances. he cant keep equipment in good order and that drives me up a wall. my stuff has to be near by, in good shape and ready where and when I want it. to be in a dangerous situation and find a needed item not there or broken is not what i am about. he is also new to firearms and at an older age and being pigheaded, he refuses to accept the fact that he is a danger and follow orders or instructions without question. Good guy, but no way will i have him behind me with a loaded firearm. So ya, one does not need people who are a risk to the group. maybe strong, have skill sets and your best friend but if they are a lose cannon then they are not worth it. as a resource and occasional cooperative efforts, ok, but not permanent member living in the same house.

others have recently mentioned how we white Anglo Saxon types tend to be more independent than other cultures and i think that is an accurate statement. we just need to find the right people and learn how to work with others when needed. Don't have to be their best bud, but know how to get along, if even for only a few hours or precious minutes to seconds.

Re: Do you plan to be a lonewolf or part of a like minded band?

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:41 pm
by Wayne

I'm a lot like you in that if there's a job to be done, the most qualified in the group is designated as the leader. I'm happy to work in a support role doing whatever I can and will work as directed. The ability to work in a team with others is an asset in my opinion and may be a matter of life and death (at least this is my experience in military and police work).

Living together is a different matter all-together. The incidence of divorce proves this point. Even living with family members can be difficult at times, but family is family. All anyone has to do is look at their life experience to realize that any group is difficult to maintain and at times impossible.

I know what you mean about best friends. I ended up living with my best friend before I was married. He drove me crazy leaving clothing dropped on the floor wherever. Dishes unwashed, etc., etc., I got my own place a few weeks after that. We worked together and I laughingly kidded him about it for years until he died on the job. Great friend, just not someone I could live with.

Ideally, people should have their privacy, but be close enough together to make working together doable and secure. term0shad has a good idea about a MAG. The problem that I see is admittance of people that you don't know enough. In-particular, how they would react in a crisis and times of extreme discomfort. Group dynamics can completely ruin group cohesion and destroy productivity. In a survival situation it can result in death. I hate to see people set themselves up for failure.

Re: Do you plan to be a lonewolf or part of a like minded band?

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:43 am
by The Island Retreat
As generations of the military can attest, it's very difficult to gauge how people will react under extreme duress/stress.

Best you can hope for in a amateur MAG is compatible personalities for the bulk of activities.

Re: Do you plan to be a lonewolf or part of a like minded band?

Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:19 am
by Wayne
Although a civilian group has a more difficult time ascertaining how other individuals will react, one method is for everyone to enroll in an Outward Bound program. People will learn about themselves and the group dynamic and better understand how each other reacts in a survival situation. This program tests the mental as well as the physical. It's mainly an inward journey that builds a team.

Going to the trouble of building 'team properties' for the expressed purpose of survival when the SHTF without knowing what you're getting into seems foolhardy to me. If you parachute, you don't jump out of the airplane with making sure that it's a parachute and not a bookbag on your back. To me the most important preparation you can make is the mental attitude of your team and its ability to persevere. Knowing team weaknesses are as important as knowing your strengths. This may well prove to be much more valuable than the other preps you're making...

Re: Do you plan to be a lonewolf or part of a like minded band?

Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:09 pm
by jkepler
Great discussion, maybe the best I've read on this site - so thanks to all of you.

I think most people would like to have lone wolf skills (generalist, independent, self-reliant) but recognize that being part of a group is way better for obvious reasons. However, most people don't have the luxury of having like-minded and trusted people around. The most fortunate here have some family and 2-3 buddies to rely on during a crisis. This is also why I joined this community in the first place - because I don't want to be isolated and I would like to part of a MAG, and I was looking for others in my area (Bow Valley - Exshaw/Canmore/Banff, AB). I have some skills (certified amateur radio, cert. wilderness first responder, familiar with firearms, good at navigating and orienteering, decent hiker and fit - crossed the arctic circle leading a small group across 100km of tundra, comfortable with computers and technology, avid reader and learner with many hobbies) but I seriously lack in critical areas (no advanced medicine/second aid, zero farming/foraging/hunting experience, complete dummy at vehicle mechanics, and so on). So after a few days/weeks, I know I would be in trouble unless I band with a group (good luck with that - I feel that people around me would be waaaay less prepared).

It seems that we are a very small community of interest. We don't have enough of a critical mass of willing and skilled people to form real MAGs, so we are forced to be prepared to go into LW mode while hoping for a MAG to be (magically) built in a crisis scenario.

The best for people like me is to keep learning and fixing my own gaps, and hope to make myself useful to a group (if I find one when the time comes).

Thanks for all your comments.