So what should one be preparing for in the first place?

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Clarence
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So what should one be preparing for in the first place?

Post by Clarence » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:59 pm

What a subject line.
Is is a nuke event, dam burst, SARS type event, cyber attack on financial system, food tampering by terrorist organization, flood, bad crop season, or what?

There’s another post on feeling lonely on this site and while I thought of posting about the subject of what is it we are planning for before, I feel it’s the right time.

Safe to say, if one wishes to go all out, there’s no limit beyond money and time or perhaps even desire ( a true Nuke world, I don’t really want to live in anyways)

For some it’s a simple way of life/ get back to the farm type and maybe ramp it up a notch with radios and some iodine pills. Others it’s all about guns, knives and ammo and defending the Alamo against people with rings in their nose. Some it’s to help hedge against a flood or other type storm and they have go bags and car always tanked up. So all manner of initial motivators and extent of preparations to deal with it. Sometimes a person may start off with a weeks worth of stuff for an ice storm and then they add iodine pills, then a shotgun or buying a cottage and stocking it with a few months worth of food.

I think if one steps back a bit and re-evaluates their goals, they may find solace in what they are doing and where they are at and maybe realize that they either do not need to have a group around them and that for their issue, they are ok. Maybe after they have the initial threat fully addressed one is in a good position to look at other threats and pick one to tackle. Maybe it’s financial health or getting insurance increased, more meds. Maybe it should be more seeds but no garden because you either do not have the land for it right now but you do have enough food to get you to harvest time at the cottage where you do have some soil to plant a garden.

For those who are already going full throttle on doing as much as one can with money or time, it’s likely they may have already thought all this out but for those just starting, it’s something to really think about. Using a threat risk assessment concept, start with what the immediate threats are and understanding the Risk / chance of it actually occurring and move forward in a measured approach. Sure a few punks may try and steal your generator during an ice storm but do you need ten guns and 5000 rounds of 308 ammo? Maybe You are better off ensuring your car always has a near full tank, good home insurance, a few propane heaters and some go bags so you can frig off to another city in advance that does have power and leave the propane heaters on to help keep pipes from freezing. That go bag in your car AND home, good insurance and car full of gas concept will also help during a tornado evacuation, when stuck in a blizzard on a highway etc. Once you have that side of preps nailed down, then you look at a generator or more food and method of keeping it from spoiling etc. Maybe the hoards in a city will be too big an issue and instead of trying to defend the Alamo, you look at a small cottage as a safer bet.

It’s all about the threats and the actual risks ( good guessing side of things).

So if financial threat, what are risks and what are your options. Assuming it’s a loss of job, determine what you think you will need to get through

If a sars type event, maybe in addition to the obvious about avoiding exposure, you loose your job because you failed to show up to work. So now it’s not just food, bleach... but that you need need money to make payments until emergency is resolved and you found a new job. So watch what you spend on all that emergency stuff and make sure you have funds for bank payments. If your freaking out because you NEED to go to work and keep your job, your likely going to run the risk of bringing that very sars virus home and negate all your efforts. Wearing a mask won’t keep you safe, you need to shed your clothing, wash down... before stepping into the house and know how to deal with that clothing. Also, don’t pick, scratch or rub your nose :oops: while driving back to work the next day because you will have just undone all your counter measures by touching the steering wheel. There’s a ton of stuff to learn about in dealing with an emergency and trust me when I say that so called pros are often as dumb as a sack of hammers when dealing with things, so stop and think through every step of the process or emergency. Read up, get informed and then plan your efforts. Otherwise your wasting money and time.

We all need to look at what it really is we are trying to do/ the threats and realistic risks of it occurring. Only then can we best focus our efforts on concrete solutions or counter measures. All manner of threats and risks but we need to prioritize and not waste money and energy fighting ghosts



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Re: So what should one be preparing for in the first place?

Post by peppercorn » Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:04 am

To answer your question, first old age, second ill health events, both are 100% certain. Third, economic swings that can leave you dissadvantaged for one reason or another, 4th mix...you don't want to run out.
Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

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Re: So what should one be preparing for in the first place?

Post by helicopilot » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:06 pm

I’m for enjoying the simple ways of life. Which in turns seem to make more resilient for little issues.

Living on the country side - yet a few minute drives to a city hospital, Costco, Home Depot, etc - has been ideal for me. I have lots of land to garden (more on that in a sec), some wood I could turn into firewood, a wood stove for heat and a large water cistern that makes relying on utility services irrelevant. I even grown very accustomed to spotty cell signal and slow/unreliable internet!

I have resilient neighbours that are like minded with enormous gardens, own guns and love to hunt, tradesmen, etc. Good neighbours to have in case of emergency, whether the emergency is the end of the world, or your septic lift pump is acting up when away for work leaving the family in a pickle.

Back the garden... this is just my opinion, but I think anyone buying seeds thinking they can learn to garden if TEOTWAWKI comes are going to be in for a big surprise! It a steep learning curve and a lot of hard work to get a sizeable food garden working and the best sure bet comes from perennial plants that take years to establish. If you plan on falling back to a cabin somewhere and just don’t have time to garden there every years, then at least go set it up with perennial plants (spinach, artichokes, walking onions, strawberries, chive...) as well as fruit trees and shrubs. They can pretty much handle themselves once established, especially if you get more hardy kinds.

Clarence
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Re: So what should one be preparing for in the first place?

Post by Clarence » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:49 pm

Issues by priority for me.
1/ economic or almost any “emergency”, being financial, ice storm, oil shortage to Sars type event.

2. My health will screw me over if not before, certainly after one year/ when meds run out. So i have prepped and try and plan for this very terminal event,

3. Old age slows me down but I believe I can with the help of family and others hold my own for first year and even assist others for success due to background skill-sets. wish oi was younger but realize i am not and therefor try and plan for it ( have a good supply of depends LOL) Depends were purchased as a result of SARS event and my guessing their value if a family member were sick and confined to a bed. So not truly age related but then again it could be somewhat related one day!

I tend to prepare for financial related issues because I see it being triggered by any number of events and the end result is somewhat the same. When I have been involved in preparedness projects, I kept seeing many of the same issues popping up. / Riots, no assistance from Gov, marshal law, power, water, sanitation, communications being down… and therefore focus on the most common denominators and then tweak to suit unique issues.

I have listened to people tell me about this or that backup but when I ask, will your staff be coming to work, they get that glazed look on their mug. If people are sick, can’t get to work due to no fuel………………………………………………………………………………………….., your backup widget, power grid, payment system ( Social benefits to simple company payroll) is worth the price of scrap metal or toilet paper. You need people and people need to be able to drink, eat, travel, be communicated with, have power ….and be safe in their home, have someone take care of their children, have access to their meds, Pick an issue and look for what you need to keep going and then work it backwards down the chain of linked items and VALIDATE or understand that each component has similar related people or part challenges and that they have their Sh*t together. My humble opinion is that if there were a real nation or large region wide emergency and it lasted more then 3 to max 5 days, we would be needing every single prep and plan we can think of. predicting people is a touchy subject and I see it following along the lines of our personal or political beleifs. something maybe worth exploring in a calm manner on this board?

For me, this is one if not the biggest issues that “people” don’t grasp. They look at their gov ro corporate plan and identify all the things they need right now, but in a few hours when staff start hitting the door to go take care of the kids, start walking home and will not be in the next day…their plans fall all apart. What about day 4, 9, 20… on a wide spread event? Kiss goodbye to any long term disaster help as there is no response other than marshal law and that will ONLY focus on top people. Until things settle down, the peasants / we will be 100% on our own! AND this is important to ponder. What things "look" like after an emergency, may be a lot different then they looked before! So one may not be truly out of the woods after the "all clear" signal is floated out.

If cyber, stock market, inflation, minor but important war with all the resulting shortages or disturbances to supply chains etc. We will see shortage of supplies, job loss, Marshal Law type controls, restrictions on freedoms, theft and increased inability or higher costs to obtain many items. Caused by this or that is important to understand but the basics effects are often similar. For me I like to think along lines of helicopilot in terms of way of life, resiliency/ stuff and means to augment. I am not planning for a nuke event nor an EMP.

Whether my preparations will help beyond a year, will depend on severity and proximity of the event. An EMP in India versus one in NYC is going to result in a very different effect. One will be an issue of migration ( because of oceans and distance, I don’t really care per se), the other, massive financial stress on the world’s economies ( I really care) Selfish or right way of thinking, maybe not, but when considering preparations and planning on any counter measures one must think along those lines.

Gardening is an art and throwing seeds into the ground is not likely going to help yield what one wants. I have to consider myself a beginner and have had success and failures. Some my doing I am sure (failures) and others I will blame on weather. So I keep a small garden as a learning tool and hope that if the need arose, I would be in a half decent position to grow enough with seeds I have. But one thing for sure is, practice goes a long way.

So I focus on immediate needs and then look at the various scenarios and see if plans accommodate each of them. I then consider the likelihood of them occurring (have big crystal ball and I wear a gown with pointed hat in the basement to tune into signals from space / SARC, LOL) and associated costs, change in lifestyle or efforts.


Love this site because of all the good info on the most common things we need and how to help make it all work better. Sad more people don’t take more ownership of their lives and without donning a tin hat or having an armoury of a small nation or a thousand cans of beans, that people have some extras and understand that they can and should do more to simply prepare for any number of perfectly predictable events. A little goes a very long way.
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Re: So what should one be preparing for in the first place?

Post by Protector » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:11 am

The well-being of my offspring and those that care about them. In those same lines I need to take better care of myself. I don't smoke/ take drugs and i cant remeber having more than a case of beer in a year. That being said I'm overweight. At 6'2 ish and 250lbs the girls at work say I wear it well. Bad posture/ eating stress and poor working conditions in the health care world, low self control when it comes to food and taking on and helping everyone I can ; While trying to advance my family is the problem.

I can still see my member of parliament when I look down so I'm not without hope but I said I would never let myself pass 250lbs and I have quite a bit lately.

Plus my yoga teacher had to quit teaching while finding a New place go live. I recommend yoga for all ache and pains. Physical or mental. You 're worth it!

Anyways I can't protect anything if I'm not around anymore so its time to smarten up.

I still think we're all stronger together and everyone needs help sometime. Lets work together!

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Re: So what should one be preparing for in the first place?

Post by Wayne » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:19 pm

What should I be preparing for in the first place?

I think that this is really a personal question that can only be answered by the reader. The answer is dependent upon the situation,

To me being a prepper is simply an attitude. Someone who tries to prepare for contingencies.

In my mind, Prepper does not mean Survivalist or Homesteader. Some Preppers are these things, but not all of them. A person who has a spare tire in his vehicle is a Prepper. It's the simple things that people do to develop contingencies.

One might think that moving two-hours away from the nearest town is a step to self-sufficiency; room to plant their own food. Another might take the approach that moving closer to a medical facility is a wise choice considering their past medical history. What's ultimately right depends upon a person's unique situation. No one should judge their actions.

Some may feel developing a MAG is the way to go, Another may be content in his situation with family or neighbors. The correct answer is in each particular situation. Unfortunately, some believe that there's only one proper version of contingency planning and that's what they see.

Peppercorn, I particularly like your approach... :-)
None you improvise, one (or more) is luxury.

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Re: So what should one be preparing for in the first place?

Post by Clarence » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:51 pm

It really is personal and based on comments so far, it’s confirmed.

As Wayne mentions, it’s not only about extremes or lifestyle choices. They all fit in of course and if it works for you, go for it and don’t be dissuaded or discouraged. Bit by tiny bit, you prepare for what you think is right for you and yours at that moment.

It would be nice to hear what got people started on their journey

I think with me, it started with camping in my early teens and desire to have god tough equipment that would work when it needed to.

Working up north at minus 50...F I realized the importance again of good clothing, spare socks, matches..........nothing like spending a surprise night in a November bush when snowstorm blew the chopper ride back to camp

Family stalled things but I kicked everything back up after my 13 day outage during ice storm, by then I was firmly entrenched in security world and away she grew. so by Y2K, we were in decent shape but still better today.

Still, my preps are all based on general preparedness and never went down the rabbit hole for EMP or some nuke event in Israel.

Be interesting and fun to be able to have people be able to add to a master list for various scenarios.? Obviously, people will have their version of the contents of a go bag, but it would still give a chance for people to say “of flip, that’s a good item I forgot”

Gardeners could detail their plantings and reasons for this or that legume/ energy, storage, bug or environmental resistance ...

So many posts here on great ideas but no master list to review. OrM I missing something?

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Wayne
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Re: So what should one be preparing for in the first place?

Post by Wayne » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:48 am

Clarence wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:51 pm
...It would be nice to hear what got people started on their journey
In my youth, I undertook increasingly difficult and longer wilderness/mountaineering expeditions. One major rule was to balance equipment necessity with weight. I became very interested in understanding how different pieces of gear could be used for things in which they were not designed.

My 'minimalist' equipment outlook took another step when I became a survival instructor. The importance of improvisation became critical. Knowledge of various environments, how to build shelter, gather food and survive became second nature.

As I grew older, I realized that a 'survival situation' could involve something other than surviving three or four weeks of wilderness isolation equipped only with 20 feet of snare wire and a knife. I could prepare to have more...

Although this is a bit embarrassing to say, I hadn't much thought of this possibility until Hurricane Juan happened and I was in my home with no electricity to pump water or cook a meal. Although I resorted to my minimalist approach, I suddenly realized that I could have developed contingencies. I emerged from sleep. I get it.

Now I'm better prepared and continue to make improvements. Although I'm better equipped, I still retain a survivor's mentality,

Having been placed in several actual survival situations where my life would largely depended upon my training and actions. I realize that the most important resource I have lies not in the equipment or food in my possession, but in the ability to persevere, endure and survive regardless of the obstacles.

Surviving with others is a double bladed sword. It cuts both ways. In one aspect it increases the workforce to build, gather and grow. At the same time, it increases demand and injects the complexity of the group dynamic.

The psychological aspects of survival and group dynamics have been a special interest of mine for several years. When I was a member of the NATO Survival Committee several years back, I had an opportunity to review several actual military survival scenarios and how group dynamics affected the survival of the parties concerned.

In some cases, the effect of others was positive and at other times negative. What was clear to me was that surviving with others who either lacked military discipline or failed to maintain it may cause a detriment to one's chances of survival.

Much has been discussed on people's plans to develop a MAG, work with neighbors, or family when confronted with a survival situation. Regardless of one's personal choices, it would seem that a group dynamic is involved.

If you are preparing to enter a survival situation with anyone, I recommend that clear responsibilities, authorities, and contingencies be developed ahead of time. I'd also recommend a training program, such as those offered by Canadian Outward Bound. This places the group in a survival type situation and increases the stress on the group dynamic.

When you've circled the wagons, it's important to keep the negative on the outside. This isn't the time to find out that you have a big problem on the inside... This should be one of the most important preps anyone takes. It seems to me something that's underappreciated.
None you improvise, one (or more) is luxury.

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Re: So what should one be preparing for in the first place?

Post by peppercorn » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:48 am

Protector wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:11 am
The well-being of my offspring and those that care about them. In those same lines I need to take better care of myself. I don't smoke/ take drugs and i cant remeber having more than a case of beer in a year. That being said I'm overweight. At 6'2 ish and 250lbs the girls at work say I wear it well. Bad posture/ eating stress and poor working conditions in the health care world, low self control when it comes to food and taking on and helping everyone I can ; While trying to advance my family is the problem.

I can still see my member of parliament when I look down so I'm not without hope but I said I would never let myself pass 250lbs and I have quite a bit lately.

Plus my yoga teacher had to quit teaching while finding a New place go live. I recommend yoga for all ache and pains. Physical or mental. You 're worth it!

Anyways I can't protect anything if I'm not around anymore so its time to smarten up.

I still think we're all stronger together and everyone needs help sometime. Lets work together!
Its best to get your health in order, before your "check engine light" comes on.
Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.

Clarence
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Re: So what should one be preparing for in the first place?

Post by Clarence » Sat Jul 06, 2019 5:17 pm

SARS type prep;
When the SARS event was unfolding, I was already pretty engaged both on personal as well as business side in business continuity. Y2K was under the belt and the “people” side of being prepared was in my opinion, an enormous issue and one that to this day is nowhere being given even a minuscule level of attention. I have to get out and do some land chores so will limit this post but it’s a big issue and below are a few points.

During sars, we know that hospitals and entire structure around them, do not have anywhere near adequate plans to handle airborne virus,s. A few examples that popped up. 1 nurses were walking out of hospitals in street shoes and clothing worn in the very area they were working in, were taking public transit,
2. The period of showing signs was days after being infected and where the risk of passing it onto others on the bus, grocery store... was a probability, grossly inadequate methods of de-gowning or even simple but crucial task of removing N95 masks was not proper procedure and nor was the fitting of them. Simply slapped on face and off you wentetc etc etc

3. Government was improperly releasing all clear messages on infection being contained. Even one of my young children clued into the stupid message.

4. They did not restrict air or other travel to people coming from China or anyone who may have visited there but came in from another country. instead of blanket ban on anyone who visited that country, they asked they self report if they developed signs. Well Duh, you retards, it’s to late to self report if you were snivelling on the plane or days later and then after exposing potentially hundreds to your infection, you do decide to take a bus to the hospital!!! To show how stupid we were, we even allowed people to go visit China on business etc but did not force them to quarantine upon return! Stupid doesn’t even begin to describe our actions!

The examples I can list of gross incompetence in restricting the spread, treatment or identification methods and other control methods would be very long. Suffice to say, our response was a complete and utter farce.

Think of this. If there is a serious viral outbreak, how do you keep working when exposure is all around you and you come home at night to the family??? You may not know for days that you are visibly infected and there is that tiny window of being contagious and not really knowing about it and therefore isolating oneself. You could be contagious halfway in the night and pass onto your partner lying beside you or touch and elevator button, open a door the next morning at the office, bus handle etc....

Now that’s you spreading it to others and let’s assume you are really proactive, but what about all the slobs you see during a day? Think how gross, dumb or outright inconsiderate some of these people are! I feel repulsed just looking at some of them on a normal day and shudder to think of how they would impact me or mine with a virus outbreak. do you think they will change their hygiene practices or are smart or considerate enough to self quarantine or will they wipe their nose with their hand and then touch a handle, a can of coke or fruit in a grocery store......you WILL NOT see me in any store during any virus outbreak!


So between poor gov planning, ill informed, stupid or gross public, you and yours are at risk.

So to my point of what do you prepare for.

You and anyone in your family or group, ultimately need to stay away from public and the challenge is, how do you do this. Assuming one has water, food,Meds... and can avoid shopping, what do you do for work/ money? Can you and everyone who is staying at your house not go to work and ride out the course of the virus at home? When SARS was an issue,I was able to stay at home and I did my best to limit my employees contact with public, gave them as much protective measures and time and encouragement to protect themselves but, they still needed to go take care of security issues. If they didn’t go in, my business would have shut down and they would be without a job and I would need to start all over again. My wife, due to her job in healthcare, insisted she go to work. Children were all in university but not living at home.

SARS was a mild event and could have been a great deal worse and it wasn’t what the gov did that nipped it, but one of pure luck

So at what point would people who wished to remain alive, need to simply stay home?

To permit people to do so would require funds and many other resources to do so. Payment of mortgage, car and other monthly obligations. School year, careers, businesses would all need to be put aside if truly wishing to survive. That’s a big decision to make for ALL concerned. How does one deal with a spouse or child who does not want to go along with the program? Do you force a family member to remain in a separate room ( with separate facilities of course!) to avoid contaminating others???? A bit of a challenge to say the least and sounds and is a cold hearted decision that everyone would need to face if serious. Some will say, well if my spouse dies, I go with them. Fair. What about the in-laws? That grumpy old person who you tolerate at Christmas but in a situation like this is when you want to toss them on an iceberg and say best of luck. Will spouse be agreeent about closing the door on them?

Now and this is almost as equally important. Let’s assume you believe you have all the money needed to make payments on mortgage, car...and don’t need to go to work. What about all the others who also stay home? Your at home all nice and stocked up for a two week event but if the house next to you catches fire, will fire department be able to respond. What about hydro, water, garbage, police response to a gang, manufacturers of the medicine you need when your two week supply runs dry.... and remember, every single supply chain, manufacturer, accounts payable, government cheque person...... are all the same sick boat. Many will not show up for work and that does two things. It not only stresses delivery of services but puts even more stress and fatigue on those who do show up and that in turn, weakens their immune capabilities and then they fall off. If one is on social assistance, pension plan and let’s not forget the banking system that manages those automated payment withdrawals. What’s the impact on you or them now?

Every link in a very big chain is at risk of a cascading effect of collapse or partial failure for a simple but deadly virus. This is the issue that I continually encountered when reviewing various plans. People just assumed that people would show up for work. They said, I am tough, wash my hands ( but then scratched their nose without realizing it) and will be there but forgot about gas or public transport, daycare, school.....being effected or should I say “infected”.

Think about your employer, will and can they effectively shut down, tell staff to work or stay home and not worry about their pay check? How soon would gov tell schools to close down, would teachers be upset if pay checks were also to stop. What about student loans and ALL the interconnected issues and parts. Will governments fall from non confidence vote? What would be impact of emergency measures act being invoked? If peop,e stay home and are fired, how long before unemployment insurance kicks in and effect of that on your surrounding. Obviously people WILL BE SICK and out of financial necessity, WILL COME TO WORK!!!!!! It’s mind blowing catch 22 to address. Of its not Sars but simple cold? Really!

Point being, one needs to think of these things when deciding on “ what is it we are preparing for”. A two week local hydro outage, a short cyber attack... is one thing to whether but what would the family dynamics be for a serious four month and longer virus? It’s not just you and having supplie or even having supplies for family showing up at doorstep but the morale issue and physical capability of quarantine.

From a family morale perspective, Sars was my biggest mental or love issue. I was willing to hunker down but wife felt obligation to strangers. Nice but I didn’t like idea of her or others in the family dying for snivelling slobs wiping their nose and touching tomatoes etc, screw them was my selfish attitude. A very big issue in our household. Conversely, she threw it back in my face and said, don’t tell me you wouldn’t go in and man the fort and I had to admit that, at that time, if asked by certain people, that I would. But one thing is for certain, I had a separate room/ building I planned on sleeping in to avoid spreading to others. Very serious self and family preservation concepts to get head wrapped around. Bravado or courage is something we can muster when under immediate threat but the mental challenges of a serious virus mess with the head and will impact even the best of normal contingency planning.

Remember, The next virus can be on a plane, boat or on a tomato right now and the larger effects would be felt nation wide within weeks.

Gotta go do some field work. Think long and hard on the moral challenges one will face in a pandemic type situation.

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