Discussions about Food Storage


Post by RedDawn » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:07 pm


BPA is Death in a can!
BPA is Bisphenol A, a deadly disease causing, cancer causing chemical found in nearly ALL canned goods and plastic containers.
BPA consumption will eventually cause Death. This chemical is sprayed into every tin can made in the USA, and used by many countries.
This chemical is in nearly ALL plastic food goods found in grocery stores, and in nearly ALL plastic storage containers.

Warning: Every person must become educated about disease and death causing BPA!
Every person must throw out old plastic containers, and begin to stop purchasing tin can goods and BPA plastic container goods.
Every person must warn others about the danger of BPA, especially to babies/infants/children.

Gone are the old days of storing 10 years of canned good to survive disasters. Mason Jars of foods have a very short lifespan, usually one year.
A freezer is a good storage option, if you have continuous power. Otherwise, everyone better learn all about a survival garden and homesteading.
International Preppers Network is one of the Best websites to learn and connect with wise knowledgeable experienced people. Lots to Learn!

Most All plastic leaches BPA or worse into product/water. Most Every plastic product you see in the grocery store has BPA in it.
One (1) serving of canned soup daily was associated with a 1,221% increase in BPA!
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press ... -soup-bpa/
Harvard Medical found BPA in plastic, and in every US tin can. Unhuh. Google it. BPA causes many diseases, cancer, eventually death.
BPA is now banned in many Countries for baby bottles and water bottles. You may see "BPA Free" water bottles. Do not buy them. They lie.
The BPA is indeed gone, but what was it replaced with? Uh huh. BPS. 75% as bad as BPA.
No plastic is good. pvc/abs is not good either.
Use glass/pyrex or stainless steel to hold/store water/food. The "soft HDPE or PET bottles of water in cases do not have BPA.
They do taste really bad after about one year, depending on storage place.
Mason Jars filled with Zero Filtered Water (or RO), in a dark basement room does much better!

Prepping is also the solution. Grow your own organic food and store/freeze/mason jar your one year needed supply plus extra.
Eat as much local organic fresh as you are able. People do not understand. The "campbell's kids" will die of "unknown causes".
Except we know it is BPA.
An entire generation will die before their time. The more canned food you eat, the more BPA you consume, the more chance of early diseases/cancer.
(BPA is the clear spray inside the tin can) When products changed to plastic containers (including ALL plastic storage containers - YES, Throw them OUT),
this generation will get double the BPA and many will suffer early health issues. It is a man-made plague of Biblical proportion!
We must eat certified organic (or home grown from tested soil) and store in glass/SS. We must get people to understand this.
Help them to minimize the BPA and maximize the fresh organic and properly stored fresh picked organic.

Start learning and planning for your Survival Garden Today. A greenhouse is great if you can afford it. Soil testing is a first Must step.
Test for poisons and toxic metals ie lead. Take spoon size soil samples every 10m/30ft or so from just below the surface. If you have a very large area,
combine some samples.Test also for soil type and nutrient deficiency. Use mushroom manure or sheep manure to fertilize and avoid weeds
that come with cow or horse manure (if possible). Add seaweed fertilizer too. There is no for example iodine in the soil. It must be added. Read more at:
https://salvationcanada.wordpress.com/bpa/, /vitamins/, /garden/, /garden-plan/

What is your response to this life endangering BPA? What plan will you make to prepare safely to survive? What is your Organic Garden Plan for 2017?

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Post by farmgal » Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:00 am

wow, you covered a lot of topics..

One I will admit to being careful about bpa, however no were near as worried as you are about it.. I do use plastic freezer bags, but store all dry in glass, can in glass, dry a lot of my food, all hubbies lunches in glass jars or tin foil, no microwave and I replaced things with cast iron or steel, down to my muffin tin so its on my radar but its not beeping in same way as worrying about others an I can an will buy something in cans in store but not much

I do disagree with one year for canning food, I very successfully have gone up to ten years in my own trails with no issues

Freezers are great now but one of the worst SHTF plans, need to learn to can, ferment, salt preserve and dry food

Greenhouse awesome but its for small amounts, the area required for planting, growing and harvesting for even a family, never mind a group will need space way beyond a greenhouse

Totally agree about soil tests and that what a soil lacking, your food is lacking.. add it now while can, and or store if possible what lacking..

As for manure, horse, sheep, cow or rabbit or fowl.. all good, weed seeds are only a issue if you did not properly compost it, reaching the correct internal temps etc and eat the weeds.. its a skill you should have an know! Weeds are good!

when I lived where I had access to seaweed.. great.. but now that I don't, I do not use it.. I will not have it if anything happens, I will not have it if I can not afford it, so learn how to use what your area an your home does have..

Learn to make plant teas and pretty much everyone can have a worm bin for worm tea for garden use :)

I did go to the link an its over the top.. they are out there and as I teach canning, their canning page needs a slap across the head! Dorks.. and that's all I am going there..

ok, going there.. while it is true that there are modern version of low acid tomatoes an they do need a added acid so they can be safely water bathed canned, if that same low acid tomato was pressure canned, no issue an we have hundreds of heritage tomatoes that are still very much breeding true with higher acid levels that are safe at waterbath canning only and we have the tool to measure acid levels

Like I said.. they are over the top and spreading false information..

I am a very steady as she goes person, my garden plan for 2017.. pretty much the same as this years.. and always adding a bit more in every way, hard fruits, soft fruits, veggies, herbals etc


Re: canning

Post by RedDawn » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:55 am

Canning: A little off my BPA topic, but important to do. Here is a beautiful little website on canning, especially the letter at the end. Please read it first.
http://www.simplycanning.com/canning-to ... afely.html

http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/publi ... _usda.html
United States Department of Agriculture: Complete Guide to Home Canning
Introduction: Caution, All home-canned foods should be canned according to the procedures in this Guide.
Low-acid and tomato foods not canned according to the recommendations in this publication
or according to other USDA-endorsed recommendations present a risk of botulism.

That is the source of the latest Science behind canning. Just because you dodge a virus, doesn't mean others will.
lol, zombie eating someone on tv.
I respect your many years of canning experience farmgal, and the fact that you teach canning.
However, to argue against the Science and the USDA, would be premature. Listen to the facts.
Viruses mutate. They seek new ways to kill hosts so they can live. A very real war. Viruses, including Botulism, have mutated, and grown stronger.
I note MERS, and AMR, as well at Botulism. Recently they are much stronger. Meanwhile, some vegetables and tomatoes are less acidic.
You stated farmgal that you have a acid tester. How many other people have this? Or would even use it? You know the need to test the acid accurately,
but many don't understand. Even if they acknowledge they understand, people get tired or miss steps, or forget, or lose it.
It is a life and death chemical experiment, canning. In the "olden days", these measures were not needed. Today, they are. Times have changed.
You do know that Clostridium botulinum is not killed off by either acid level or temperature? The spores survive and are ready to repopulate immediately.
None of us knows everything. By sharing we gain wisdom. It is wise to continually update and upgrade information. Right? Thanks for listening.
I am not just taking the USDA at their word either, as strong a warning as that is. I look at the Science. The facts. And yes, some tomatoes are less acidic.
And yes, virus mutation is on the up. Bacteria is much stronger too. So the olden days are over. Like always, it is change or take your chances.
One more fact is my Health Inspector work and BSc. I saw so many people infected from spoiled food, but they almost never go to the hospital.
The food or canned product can look fine, smell fine, taste fine, but isn't fine. Bacteria doubles every 20 minutes at room temperature. Scary.
Thus the actual number of fbi cases are never really known. Canned food, home food, or restaurant food, True illness case numbers are not known.
Many different viruses and bacteria can cause food borne illness. Including botulism from canning. You are wise, farmgal, to recommend pressure cooking.
That follows the USDA guidelines. Water bath takes much longer now and is riskier. The pressure cooker should be twice the time per USDA, and adjusted
to local elevation, per same. This is a small thing to do. Not sure why it would even be a debate. No false pride going on here, right?
The fact that you teach canning makes you the best person to learn the new guidelines to canning and why. Then you can pass this on. Safety First!
It is not "spreading false information", is it. Nor a difference of opinion.
The USDA Guidelines to Canning are scientific and laboratory proven. Who is going to argue against the latest laboratory proven repeatable science?
Who would want to be responsible for someone's death because they told them not to follow the USDA Guidelines for Canning??
(We are not postulating survival situations where it is eat this or die.)

I note the first website sloughs off responsibility. I would not recommend doing that. Can you imagine the guilt, lawsuits and even jail for the person
who tells another a jar is safe, when in fact it proves to not be safe? It is not "over the top and spreading false information", farmgal. It is a new fact.
Think about it.
On the contrary, where is the latest laboratory proven repeatable science to prove consistently that the old ways still work for everyone?
And you don't need to boil 2X longer? Or use the pressure cooker Always if there is any vegetable in the tomato jar? (Dodging a bullet at home is not a test)
Where are the laboratory tests consistently showing the old ways still work?
There are none.

Hope you can receive this truth, farmgal. You seem like someone genuine and intelligent.

If you have any further doubts, see:
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/foo ... m-2011.htm
http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/eating-nu ... nt-eng.php
http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/eating-nu ... me-eng.php

ps. The USDA recommends that all home canned (jarred) goods be consumed within one year.
"People play Russian roulette in life, until they don't."
Science is a wise choice, and Science is my choice too. I hope everyone uses food science and wisely chooses the new safe canning techniques per USDA.
http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/publi ... _usda.html
I am confident that we will come to a mutual understanding on this important topic, canning, farmgal. There is much to learn from each other, my friend.

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Post by farmgal » Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:28 pm

hi red dawn,

First, we can find a meet in the middle an its all good..

first thing is, please do not use a pressure cooker. please use a pressure canner.. two different pieces of equipment.

Please understand that the purpose of water bath finish at the end of a high acid or high sugar canning process is totally different then using a pressure canner to safely can a low acid product. Timing is related to the product being made and changes with it

Tomatoes are one of those strange ones that can meet in the middle, you can add a recommended acid of choice and waterbath or you can pressure can them. Canning is tricky and writing is tricky.. yes, if you add a low acid veggie to the tomato you will need to pressure can it for safety, or you can use acid or sugar or combo of both and it becomes safe again to waterbath.

You are correct sea level and weight gages need to be looked at when pressure canning.

I do agree that the canning rules have changed over the years, I have been canning over 30 years an yes, I teach the modern rules, I do understand your concern about food safety, I have taken the courses and classes having worked in my younger days in kitchens but having kept up the training do to interest an passion in the subject

I will respectfully in regards to using my own home canning for personal use only disagree that it will hold for only a year.. its what they recommend yes, but on this one for my own use, I am allowed to make that choice for myself.

I see you are very strong in your beliefs and that its something you care about, that will translate into safety in your own home and how you do things, and in the end that will be a very good thing for you an yours.. peace and have a great day!


Re: canning

Post by RedDawn » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:12 pm

lol, you do well farmgal, to not answer the question, and even better picking out one word to argue about.
I was referring to the "process", not the equipment.
But, if you have to prove you are right and everyone else is wrong, go ahead.
Can I ask which University you graduated from?
No, tomatoes are not strange. Most Tomatoes are a vegetable based on their acidic value. That means canning rules for a vegetable, not a fruit.
Too easy! Regardless, Safety First. That means add the lemon juice, always, and pressure cook (in a pressure canner), for double the old time per USDA.
No boiling water method for tomatoes any more. That is the Safety Rule. USDA says so! Too Simple! It is folly to do otherwise!
My point stands, farmgal, which you did not answer, still. What about the other people? The people you give old product to? The people you teach wrongly?
The people you teach in violation of the USDA Canning Guidelines. The Guidelines that thousands and thousands of people pressure cook with their
pressure canner scientifically and correctly follow? Are thousands wrong and only you are right?

Yet you stubbornly say "I am allowed to make that choice for myself."

Strange two times over. One, no one said you have no freedom to make your own choice for yourself. If you want to swallow poison, that's your choice.
Two, this is not about you, farmgal. This is about others.
Telling others opposite to the USDA Guidelines for Canning is, well, silly? missing the mark? Wrong?
You should not instruct others to can (jar) the old way. That is plain dangerous.

I am concerned for the safety, health, and well-being of every person I meet. If
I need to change when new information comes to light, then I change.
Hopefully other people receive new science information, laboratory tested, proven by thousands, and change too.
Almost everyone I have met, is glad and thankful for the new information. Not so much the restaurant owners
whom I closed down for not following the rules, but later they did and reopened.

Again, farmgal, I am not saying follow "rules" blindly. Research them, use scientific reasoning, and think about Safety.
Do you have to be "right", violating the USDA, OMAF, Universities, thousands, and tell others unsafe methods to can (jar) tomatoes?
That is the question farmgal.
Are You right, and everyone else is wrong?

People that read here deserve to know the correct canning methods under the new USDA Guidelines, for SAFETY. For Health.
So they don't get sick or die.
http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/publi ... _usda.html

Telling people to NOT follow the scientifically correct, proven rules, is not healthy.
For Tomatoes, Add the lemon juice and Double the time and pressure cook (in your pressure canner).
The old ways are gone, farmgal. All of them. In many areas. They all changed. And so must we.

I think this conversation is exhausted. Think about it, and read the USDA Guidelines for canning. Think about the safety of people.
Increase the acidity and Double the pressure cook time per USDA Guidelines for canning (in your pressure canner)
I end saying I believe farmgal will come around. There are many topics to have a healthy debate on, and reach a scientific, correct conclusion on.
BPA, The lying Brita Water Filter Pictures that do NOT take the lead out, LEAD and the real dangers of it, Water, Bed Bugs, Iodine, and more...
These are topics we all need to devote time to researching, studying, talking about, and doing something about. Then inform others.
We should all Donate to IPN for their making this website available. Where is that Donate button?
Learn, Grow, Change, is a big piece of Life!
The more we get it correct the better life is! Who wants to risk Botulism poisoning, painful illness, or death - for 20 min of cook time??? Duh!

Back to BPA and the evil health destroying chemical it is. Has everyone checked their home? Read up on BPA? Please do!
Everyone has much to share on many topics, and I am sure there are many useful and scientifically proven, correct, ways to do things.
I want to learn more later about growing mushrooms. A big and detailed topic. Lots to learn from wise people here.

*LOL...A neighbor just came over. I showed her these posts and she asked about how to pressure cook tomatoes now.
She wanted to do it the "old way". hahahha. We had a long conversation.She had many tomato jars in the pantry about 5 years old.
I told her she HAD to throw them out. They are not safe!
She cried...almost. lol. Then we laughed. I told her I would help can more, as she has over 1,000 tomatoes. (secret water source) She liked that.
It shows again how resistant people are to any change from the "old ways". When I showed her the USDA Guidelines to Canning, she was a believer.
Good for her. Tomato canning now needs lemon juice to increase acidity, and must pressure cook (in a pressure canner).
Low cost on Amazon. Boiling in water is OUT. Buy a Pressure Cooker Canner today.
(Equipment: Canner regulates pressure, cooker only, not recommended)

Follow the USDA Guidelines for Canning!!! Be Smart! Be Safe! Peace to you

Farmgal, thanks for the debate, and you have a great day too.
Isn't Life full of fun and surprises? I never planned on all this, but thank you for reading all of it.
Reader, may you make the wise and safe choice. Thanks.
Have a great day everyone! I have tons of canning to do - following the USDA Guidelines for Canning!

"Get Wisdom...Get Understanding"

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Post by Denob » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:05 pm

Wow...red dawn, where do you get your info?
could you please post that link to the USDA saying no more waterbath canning?
It doesn't work and all the searches I have found on the USDA site still say water bath for tomatoes is OK...if you suspect a low acid level, just add some lemon juice.
Too bad your friend is throwing out all those tomatoes...they are likely still good.
As for the BPA thing...ya keep an eye out and avoid when possible, but I think you just might be a little paranoid about it.
Good luck with the freezer idea though.


Re: canning, again, lol

Post by RedDawn » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:20 pm

BSc, HC, OMAF, USDA and more. Links are posted. It is their words and nothing "paranoid" about it. Either people follow the USDA Guidelines
for canning, or they risk problems. And no, my friend is grateful. She just opened them and they were bad. All of them.
"Too bad your friend is throwing out all those tomatoes...they are likely still good."
Denob, Site Admin, Re: BPA post by Denob » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:05 pm
It is the USDA that said "One Year", not me. It is not nice to call me "paranoid", when people are suffering terribly from BPA.
http://environment.harvard.edu/news/fac ... d-pressure
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press ... -soup-bpa/
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press ... ficulties/
http://www.wecf.eu/english/articles/201 ... up-bpa.php
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/securit/pa ... ex-eng.php
http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/bpa-linked ... -1.2523773
and many, many, more links. If it is so "paranoid", they why did so many Countries, Canada first, BAN BPA in baby bottles and water bottles, Denob?
However, paranoid is a good quality to cultivate these days. Thanks for the compliment. xD
Here is the quote from USDA. "United States Department of Agriculture: Complete Guide to Home Canning
Introduction: Caution, All home-canned foods should be canned according to the procedures in this Guide.
Low-acid and tomato foods not canned according to the recommendations in this publication
or according to other USDA-endorsed recommendations present a risk of botulism."
As I said, links are posted. If you don't agree with the USDA, then tell them.

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Post by Denob » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:49 pm

Actually, I read the site front to back end to end.
I have the guide printed out in a binder and refer to it every canning season as my "canning bible"
No where, I repeat no where does it say not to water bath can tomatoes.
Also, no where, I repeat no where does it claim that home canned food is unsafe after 1 year.
Your info is wrong and your sources do not support your claim.
I also said to avoid BPA when ever possible, but there is so much else to worry about that I think your concern over this is blown out of proportion.
The whole BPA thing came to light years ago...nothing new here.
In either case, when someone disagrees with you, perhaps you can take the constructive criticism a little better.
We are not trying to attack you, just pointing out some misinterpretations of something you have read, which I consult on a very regular basis.
I recommend that you go back and read the USDA guidelines again, and try to understand them correctly.
Do I seem a bit rude in this answer, well, treat as treated. Be a little more understanding and others will do in kind.

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Post by HopeImReady » Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:46 am

Well said, Denob. Red Dawn, methinks you need to chill out a bit...
"The thing about smart mother f*ckers, is that they sometimes sound like crazy mother f*ckers to dumb mother f*ckers." -Abraham .”

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Post by thecrownsown » Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:33 pm

What Health Canada has to say about BPA, without the hype:

http://healthycanadians.gc.ca/healthy-l ... _a-eng.php

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/fn-an/securit/pa ... ex-eng.php

http://www.chemicalsubstanceschimiques. ... ex-eng.php

There are no mass deaths, or destruction from BPA.. I havn't read all of the sites posted above freaking out about BPA..but the few I did go to were more hype, no science.

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